FIRST HOME - Help with new Consumer Unit

[Billsays]

Taking all of the guts out and replacing them puts it into dubious territory on the non-combustible CU front. Especially considering that, as far as I know, the whole lid is plastic not just the window.

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

 

[Midwest]

Old CU's and new RCBO's are some times compatible, as long as you seek manufacturer guidance first. However, I fitted two Hager RCBO's in one of their older CU's, and there wasn't a lot of room for the wiring termination.

Some manufacturers offer RCBO populated CU's, which are cheaper to purchase than individual devices, and the CU has been designed for RCBO's.

 

[Risteard]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

Actually given that RCBOs are a type of RCD it most certainly does have RCDs. It doesn't have any RCCBs however.

 

[Risteard]

Sorry davesparks I hadn't seen your post when I posted that.

 

[Octopus]

Actually given that RCBOs are a type of RCD it most certainly does have RCDs. It doesn't have any RCCBs however.

Boys ......... the vast majority of Joe Public don't understand the differences ........ so I stand by my statement (and I don't think the later versions of the RCBO will fit that board ).

The OP needs a new CU............. end of.

 

[telectrix]

i agree. due to the busbar layout on these boards, it's next to impossible to re-configure them.

 

[Billsays]

i agree. due to the busbar layout on these boards, it's next to impossible to re-configure them.

What's to reconfigure? This board has no RCDs, it's a Crabtree starbreaker board with a main switch. Remove the mcbs and the obsolete double module RCBOs and replace with modern RCBOs. Gives the Op all the capacity he needs.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

 

[Midwest]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

I can see this being contentious

 

[Billsays]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

Really? please explain.

 

[Risteard]

This board has no RCDs

Once again, that statement simply isn't correct. RCD is a generic term for all residual current devices which includes RCBOs.

 

[Billsays]

Once again, that statement simply isn't correct. RCD is a generic term for all residual current devices which includes RCBOs.

I thought it was pretty obvious I meant a double pole type of RCD used to make a ccu split load or 17th edition......... But you are absolutely right to pull me on it. (And technically correct is of course the best kind of correct )
I apologise for my tardy parlance and will strive to be clearer in future.

 

[davesparks]

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

By guts I am referring to the internal parts of the CU.

I don't know if I was 'waffling on' but yes I have often commented on the fact that everything is combustible if exposed to the right conditions.
If and when I make that departure from the regulations I do so after considering the individual situation, not as a one size fits all solution.

 

[davesparks]

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

By guts I am referring to the internal parts of the CU.

I don't know if I was 'waffling on' but yes I have often commented on the fact that everything is combustible if exposed to the right conditions.
If and when I make that departure from the regulations I do so after considering the individual situation, not as a one size fits all solution.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Just to let you chaps know , did some one ask about moving a consumer unit in scotland in bunglow recenty on this forum?

 

[Midwest]

Come on buzz, there's nothing much else happening.

 

[Midwest]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

To give my opinion;

If the replacement items change the original installation, e.g. dual RCD to fully populated RCBO's, then I would consider that a significant change to the original installation, therefore would need to comply with current regs (i.e. 421.1.201).

If the installation was the additional RCBO or two, then it would not. We did have a recent debate on moving a plastic CU from one room to another, which I think came out 50-50.

As I said earlier, it is probably more financially viable, to install a new A3 fully populated CU, than just buying x amount of RCBO's to install into a plastic one.

Bottom line is, there is no one who can tell you how to interpret this reg in these circumstances, and unless you find yourself gripping some bars, being questioned about your reasoning, you can do what you think complies with this reg.

Edit; you could ask your scheme if your in one, but I suspect they would bat it back to you, and say it was the designer to make the decision.

 

[Octopus]

Just to let you chaps know , did some one ask about moving a consumer unit in scotland in bunglow recenty on this forum?

Yes - it was also by the same chap ...... it would appear that he ignores what he doesn't want to hear...

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Really? please explain.

Let me explain, you are moving the board from one location to another. You will be disconnecting all the cables and supply to the board. You want to strip the board down so you can try and fit suitable rcbo's. You are installing it in a new location. You must comply with current BS7671 regs. The work must be notified to LBC. The work must be done by a qualified Electrician who is a member of a scheme so the work can be done properly, to current regs, certified and notify LBC. If you want yours electrics done right and have no issues later on if and when you want to sell the property then pay a qualified Electrician to do it right, if your not going to do that then stop asking questions on here and ask your own Electrician who's charging you £250 and on about installing a sub standard board. Good Luck.

 

[Billsays]

Let me explain, you are moving the board from one location to another. You will be disconnecting all the cables and supply to the board. You want to strip the board down so you can try and fit suitable rcbo's. You are installing it in a new location. You must comply with current BS7671 regs. The work must be notified to LBC. The work must be done by a qualified Electrician who is a member of a scheme so the work can be done properly, to current regs, certified and notify LBC. If you want yours electrics done right and have no issues later on if and when you want to sell the property then pay a qualified Electrician to do it right, if your not going to do that then stop asking questions on here and ask your own Electrician who's charging you £250 and on about installing a sub standard board. Good Luck.

I,m more in the camp of post #50.

Your making it sound a bigger job than it actually is. Existing CCU is perfectly up-gradable.

 

[telectrix]

i may be wrong here, not having used a starbreaker board for ages, but aren't some of thos busbar slots Neutrals for the D/P RCBOs?

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I,m more in the camp of post #50.

Your making it sound a bigger job than it actually is. Existing CCU is perfectly up-gradable.

Do what you want, I've only been doing Electrics for over 20 years, done an apprenticeship etc. What do I know, but don't come posting on here when you can't get it signed off because you have used a plastic board and not a metal clad one as per the regs but what the hell, just do what you want.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

i may be wrong here, not having used a starbreaker board for ages, but aren't some of thos busbar slots Neutrals for the D/P RCBOs?

Let him find out the hard way as he keeps telling us what he's doing even though he's not qualified, his polish electrician can determine that.

 

[Billsays]

i may be wrong here, not having used a starbreaker board for ages, but aren't some of thos busbar slots Neutrals for the D/P RCBOs?

No Tel, the supply Neutral is behind the load neutral, it is hard to see. its a bit clearer here...... Crabtree Starbreaker RCBO 32 Amp 30mA B32 Type B 32A 61/B3230 Older Style - Willrose Electrical - Discontinued & Obsolete Circuit Breakers - https://willrose-electrical.co.uk/product/crabtree-starbreaker-rcbo-32-amp-30ma-b32-type-b-32a-61b3230-older-style/?gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5ZDMauaYMe_BlqLV2MECNxoemKx69FEYSnjLIpQ114Je94eN_O8APRoC1TgQAvD_BwE

I use starbreaker a lot!

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Aren't they obsolete the starbreaker rcbo's ?

 

[Billsays]

Do what you want, I've only been doing Electrics for over 20 years, done an apprenticeship etc. What do I know, but don't come posting on here when you can't get it signed off because you have used a plastic board and not a metal clad one as per the regs but what the hell, just do what you want.

Calm down mate, Ive been doing it a fair bit longer than you and know what i,m talking about.
The op is fishing on various sites for info........does the mystery polish electrician exist? I doubt it. I'm just debating whether the existing ccu can be re used.

No starbreaker are not obsolete.

 

[telectrix]

No Tel, the supply Neutral is behind the load neutral, it is hard to see. its a bit clearer here...... Crabtree Starbreaker RCBO 32 Amp 30mA B32 Type B 32A 61/B3230 Older Style - Willrose Electrical - Discontinued & Obsolete Circuit Breakers - https://willrose-electrical.co.uk/product/crabtree-starbreaker-rcbo-32-amp-30ma-b32-type-b-32a-61b3230-older-style/?gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5ZDMauaYMe_BlqLV2MECNxoemKx69FEYSnjLIpQ114Je94eN_O8APRoC1TgQAvD_BwE

I use starbreaker a lot!

i stand corrected. just was looking at a couple of RCDs i have in stock from a strip-out. 2 porongs, but the N is separate so those 2 prongs must both be L's. if that makes sense.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Calm down mate, Ive been doing it a fair bit longer than you and know what i,m talking about.
The op is fishing on various sites for info........does the mystery polish electrician exist? I doubt it. I'm just debating whether the existing ccu can be re used.

No starbreaker are not obsolete.

Sorry I thought you where the OP, my apologies, he just needs to sort it out with his electrician and stop posting on every forum under the Sun, again sorry, I've had a carp day with a carp CPN board that shouldn't even be allowed to be sold.

 

[Billsays]

Sorry I thought you where the OP, my apologies, he just needs to sort it out with his electrician and stop posting on every forum under the Sun, again sorry, I've had a carp day with a carp CPN board that shouldn't even be allowed to be sold.

No worries mate, it can get confusing who says what!

Can't stand those cheap boards, CPN, BG etc i think they are the reason Amendment three was introduced! Is CPN Citys own brand?

 

[suffolkspark]

in ref to post #75 yes but the 1 module ones fit. the bus bar is continuous in these boars, they had plastic inserts in the split load ones but this is a straight bar so nothing else in the board needs changing. lets face it its not going to get a certificate on anyway that's even if this polish electrician exists, I would much sooner a DIYer use that crabtree board over a new BG one as he's got a third more connections to potentially leave loose with his neon screwdriver!

 

[MerlinGremlin]

No worries mate, it can get confusing who says what!

Can't stand those cheap boards, CPN, BG etc i think they are the reason Amendment three was introduced! Is CPN Citys own brand?

Very confusing sometimes the client supplied the board from yesss electrical I wasn't impressed to say the least, I don't know how some boards can be sold.

 

[suffolkspark]

Very confusing sometimes the client supplied the board from yesss electrical I wasn't impressed to say the least, I don't know how some boards can be sold.

I don't understand it its like putting cheap tyres on your car though, people do it despite them being the main thing holding you on the road!

What's more daft is MK boards are so so cheap even at screwfix etc yet people still buy these BG boards etc

 

[buzzlightyear]

Will boggy & scarbuger from polizicker. Do a job for 250.00 pounds they can run back to their
Own country no concerned about
Electfiing some one !

 

[Billsays]

I don't understand it its like putting cheap tyres on your car though, people do it despite them being the main thing holding you on the road!

What's more daft is MK boards are so so cheap even at screwfix etc yet people still buy these BG boards etc

Agree, MK and Wylex both very cheap at our wholesaler at the moment.

 

[Dave OCD]

Will boggy & scarbuger from polizicker. Do a job for 250.00 pounds they can run back to their
Own country no concerned about
Electfiing some one !

Only you could put it like that Buzz.

 

[Dave OCD]

Can I just say I've fitted numerous BG boards with no issues at all, but this thread is putting me right off them.

 

[telectrix]

Can I just say I've fitted numerous BG boards with no issues at all, but this thread is putting me right off them.

so have I.

 

[Dave OCD]

Ah could be that you,Richard and me are the only ones who fit them properly then Tel ?

 

[SJD]

And so have I.
If I want a LH main switch then I tend to install MK, but if I want a RH main switch then I used to install Wylex but nowadays they are a bit more expensive, whereas BG are about the same price as MK.

 

[Octopus]

Most of the AMD3 boards are just flimsy carp, wrapped in metal .......

 

[Richard Burns]

Ah could be that you,Richard and me are the only ones who fit them properly then Tel ?

Sounds a reasonable hypothesis!

 

[Dave OCD]

I do recall early ones I fitted a few years ago had tight neutral and earth bar screws, maybe caused by threadlock applied to excess but these days they're fine.

 

[telectrix]

I do recall early ones I fitted a few years ago had tight neutral and earth bar screws, maybe caused by threadlock applied to excess but these days they're fine.

i remember that. theyy still can be a bit tight so you think you've got the cable secured, then it drops out. just makes you a bit more on the ball. at least with BG, the MCBs sit straight, not like MK.

 

[Des 56]

MK was once a name that went hand in hand with the word quality

I find it incredible (given the absolute crap that MK now manufacture) they are being considered as somehow superior to BG or other low cost consumer units

The days of MK and quality are long gone,numerous quantities of their consumer units (with main switches that were found to be burned out embers after little use) are without doubt still in use
Along with the abysmal standard of Crabtree sockets both are no better than most of the other junk on the market
edit
I will give Crabtree their due,the Crabtree consumer units are a standard above the usual junk that gets fitted

 

[SJD]

With MK and their LH switch, as you are tightening the MCBs onto the busbar the MCB tops tend to move to the right with the screw turning. I kind of assumed this was a flaw with LH switch units, whereas with a RH switch unit, it is the opposite.

 

[telectrix]

With MK and their LH switch, as you are tightening the MCBs onto the busbar the MCB tops tend to move to the right with the screw turning. I kind of assumed this was a flaw with LH switch units, whereas with a RH switch unit, it is the opposite.

easily solved. we get MK to mod all their gear ( main switch,RCD, MCBs) to left-hand thread. not only would that cure the problem of crooked MCBs, it would also fry the brains of NICEIC Electrical Trainee's. sssssimplessss.

 

[suffolkspark]

MK MCB's probably out of all brands do have the sloppiest grip on the din rail to be fair but just hold them square as you tighten them with your torque driver and they will stay square!
On a side note I fitted an Eaton AM 3 board a bit ago and you know what it was very well built with both square and round knockouts, and the MCB's held that DIN rail like nothing I've ever come across, defo recommend.

 

[Midwest]

With MK and their LH switch, as you are tightening the MCBs onto the busbar the MCB tops tend to move to the right with the screw turning. I kind of assumed this was a flaw with LH switch units, whereas with a RH switch unit, it is the opposite.

See'ins though we've gone off the rails, agree with SJD, and the twisting effect of the MK modules, which allegedly the new A3 din rail was designed to prevent.

And another thing. The MK blanks which fit on the din rail, can only be obtained in the colour (cream) of the old plastic CU's. The blanks which fit in the lid, can be obtained in the new colour of the A3 CU's (off white), but they are not the same width as mcb (e.g.) and so you end up with a gap (which increase with each blank).

So you end up with a shiny new off white coloured CU, with cream coloured blanks or colour matching blanks with a hole someone can poke a fist through.

Four paragraphs again, telextrical