Is my Property Electrical Test and Inspection Report Misleading?

[topcat77]

Hi,

I bought a property in 2010 and naturally had the electrical and inspection report done prior. The report said that 'generally the electrics are in good order but new consumer unit is needed and bonding to gas and water is also needed' The quoted work was £500 in total - no problems with that.

Today (2 years later) I had a SELV fan fitted and the electrician on completion said that the lighting and switches do not have an earth, as such a re-wire is required. I was quoted £2000 approx for this as it will be several days work. Prior to this no electrical work has been done since moving in.

My question(s), as I do not have an electical background, is the initial report that was provided on the property misleading? There is a big difference between £500 and £2500, and as far as I am aware earthing is *very* important. The report that was given to me was important in deciding to buy what is my first house. Is the company who did the initial report liable and/or what steps can I take?

I have the original "domestic electrical installation periodic inspection report" and it states 'all mains wiring' is covered in the report (the rest I do not understand).

I hope that this makes sense and thanks in advance for any help!

John

 

[MDJ]

Sounds like the first inspection wasn't done properly because that would definately have been mentioned I'm sure if discovered.

 

[telectrix]

a load of houses were wired in the 60's with no earthing to the lighting. as long as all class II fittings are installed and there's a label on the CU, then it's not a massive problem. rewiring the lighting circuit/s so as to include a cpc should not cost as much as £2000.

 

[telectrix]

topcat77. if you post your location, i'm sure a member near to you would quote a lot better than £2000.

 

[ashrow]

Also if you can post the original cert it would be good for the electricians here to see it and then advise you

 

[SYKRAPS]

Was the initial report carried out by a contractor of your choice or the choice of the estate agent or vendor? I would guess the latter.

As mentioned above no cpc in lighting circuits can be overcome with class II fittings but IMO it should be mentioned on the certification that you should have received.

2K for the re-wire of lighting circuits does seem over the top unless your house is a mansion.

How many lighting points do you have in total?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Back before 1966 when the 14th edition was introduced, lighting circuits were generally not fitted with a CPC.
Even now with the 17th edition, there is no requirement for lighting circuits to be provided with a CPC, although they are now always provided with one.
A CPC connects exposed-conductive-parts to the main earthing terminal. If there are no exposed-conductive-parts on a circuit, then there is no need for a CPC.
If your lighting circuits do not have metal switches or fittings, and the back boxes are insulated in some manner, then there is no real reason to re-wire the circuits.
Another option to a re-wire, would be to fix a warning notice to the Consumer Unit (warning that the lighting circuits have no CPC), provide RCD protection for the lighting circuits and ensure that there are no exposed-conductive-parts by using plastic accessories, plastic fittings and insulating back boxes.

 

[BlueToBits]

411.3.1.1 (final para)
"A circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lamp holder having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from a point."

 

[funkymonkeytwo]

Lighting rewire £2000 jezzz and how many days 7 !!! you must live in a 7 bedroom house or the quote was from a first year apprentice

 

[topcat77]

The electrician who fitted the selv fan mentioned he could test the new installation but only up to a point as some testing requires earthing, but if not he would make a note.

The house was built around 1948 and is a 3-bed semi, unfortunately i havent got any way to get the cert online In total I have about 13 light points.

Is there anywhere on the cert (DPN4) that would tell me this has been checked or would it be hand written notes?

Thanks for the posts btw

 

[telectrix]

411.3.1.1 (final para)
"A circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lamp holder having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from a point."

agreed, but this was not a requirement in the 60's so as regs. are not retrospective, then it can be left, subject to class 2 fittings, CU labelling , etc., as previous posts have pointed out.

 

[polo1]

If I understand what you have told us correctly, then you appear to have a case against the electrician who conducted the pir/eicr (if you instructed the inspection). Even with limitations, I would expect no cpc on a lighting circuit to be highlighted, if only to advise the use of Class II light fittings.

Regards.

 

[funkymonkeytwo]

If you look on the circuit description page it should have all the circuit details with cable size and cpc size if they have put a cpc size & a result for the r1+r2 lighting circuit I'd say you would have a good case against them to be honest

 

[Deleted member 26818]

411.3.1.1 (final para)
"A circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lamp holder having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from a point."

First para:
"Exposed-conductive-parts shall be connected to a protective conductor under the specific conditions for each type of system earthing as specified in Regulations 411.4 to 6."

411.4.2 final para:
"Each exposed-conductive-part of the installation shall be connected by a protective conductor to the main earthing terminal of the installation, which shall be connected to the earthed point of the power supply system."
411.5.1:
"Every exposed-conductive-part which is to be protected by a single protective device shall be connected, via the main earthing terminal, to a common earth electrode. However, if two or more protective devices are in series, the exposed-conductive-parts may be connected to separate earth electrodes corresponding to each protective device."
411.6.2:
"Exposed-conductive-parts shall be earthed individually, in groups, or collectively."

If there are no exposed-conductive-parts on a circuit, what use would a CPC be?

 

[topcat77]

Thanks

On page 4 under the table 'N Test Results' there is a column 'All Circuits' which is subdivided into two columns 'R1 + R2' and 'R2'. All boxes for cooker, sockets, lights up, lights down, shower have values in the subcolumn 'R1+R2' ranging from .07 to .74, they all have values, the sub column 'R2' has no values.

Under the column 'cpc (mm2)' this column is populated with values ranging from 1.0 to 2.5 for the areas of house mentioned above.

Could it be that the electrician who fitted the fan has not checked properly? (I was unable to show this document to him earlier).

And I thought doing a tax return was bad...

 

[SYKRAPS]

The electrician who fitted the selv fan mentioned he could test the new installation but only up to a point as some testing requires earthing, but if not he would make a note.

The house was built around 1948 and is a 3-bed semi, unfortunately i havent got any way to get the cert online In total I have about 13 light points.

Is there anywhere on the cert (DPN4) that would tell me this has been checked or would it be hand written notes?

Thanks for the posts btw

Any observations and/or recommendations should be noted in section G of the certificate and be coded to the right, if you could list some of these we may be able to shed some more light (excuse the pun) on the situation for you.

 

[SYKRAPS]

Thanks

On page 4 under the table 'N Test Results' there is a column 'All Circuits' which is subdivided into two columns 'R1 + R2' and 'R2'. All boxes for cooker, sockets, lights up, lights down, shower have values in the subcolumn 'R1+R2' ranging from .07 to .74, they all have values, the sub column 'R2' has no values.

Under the column 'cpc (mm2)' this column is populated with values ranging from 1.0 to 2.5 for the areas of house mentioned above.

Could it be that the electrician who fitted the fan has not checked properly? (I was unable to show this document to him earlier).

And I thought doing a tax return was bad...

If there is an r1+r2 value against the lighting circuits then the electrician who performed the PIR is stating that there are earths present in the circuit, it may be wise to get a 2nd opinion because one of the electricians in giving false info I feel.

Once again where are you geographically situated as many guys on here will be willing to help

 

[topcat77]

I am in York.

The items in Section G:

1. main bonding to gas/water - code 1
2. no earth sleeving on shower enclosure - code 2
3. No RCD protection on any circuit (is now 17th ed)

Section H:

installation in order, requires items listed to bring upto current regulation

 

[loop3]

Tc, if feel sorry for mate. I really do. You in London?

 

[loop3]

York. I can't help you. I really want to though. Good human nature thing. Know what I mean.