Is this against regulations?

[jreed110]

I had the misfortune of drilling through cabling several days ago (on more than one occasion). Unfortunately it was not until the very last point that I tripped the fuse box and the power went. On bringing in an electrician he was shocked to see the cabling set up as it was, stating it left me with no chance of knowing cabling would be hidden where I went in and that a tradesman would have done the same thing. He also believed the work was against regulations for new builds and should not have been signed of by the site manager.

My house is a new build, we moved in two and a half years ago. This is an under stairs cupboard, a fairly obvious place for shelving to go, and as you can see from the attached pic the cabling was completely hidden under the plaster with no external box in sight to give an indication there could be cabling there. We've had other issues with the builders and I know they are likely to stand their ground on this. Was this entirely my fault or prior to the build being signed off should they have ensured there was a box of some type showing cabling could have been running horizontally or vertically from there? Will our 10 year NHBC warranty cover this? Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Spoon]

Just to let you know mate, there is no attached pic.

 

[telectrix]

as he says. without a photo, we're just guessing.

 

[driverman]

Yes , pic would be nice to see. What cable , circuit was it for ? Anything electrical on the opposite side of the wall that you drilled?

 

[Kate]

Was it 150mm from any corner wall?

 

[jreed110]

file:///Users/ali/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library.photolibrary/Previews/2014/12/17/20141217-093751/fhVW3k5%25TzafvwcJfXvSZQ/IMG_0040.jpg

 

[camerabloke]

No valid link there bud

 

[jreed110]

Sorry, issues with the internet. Pic should now be above..... I believe it is less than 150mm from the wall, despite this the electrician still believed it was poor practice and possibly in breach of regulation 7671. He completed a report part of which is below but am after any other thoughts as weight for whether or not we should pursue this with the builders.

"Found flexes buried in wall of under stairs cupboard, in my opinion this isn't good practice and requires attention. As I would interpret the 7671 regs flexes should be surface ran not buried and no more than 3m long. Also any buried cables should terminate into an accessory that is in line within 150mm of the buried run, so anyone fixing to the wall can see that there maybe buried cables."

 

[cobrauk]

I do not fully agree with the 150mm rule just because of this situation.

But I would never drill into a wall without checking there is nothing hidden a simple cheap cable detector would have saved you from this happening.

 

[jreed110]

Thanks for your reply. I used to have a cheap wire detector but have up on it as it would go off all the time even when I'd subsequently find out that there was nothing nearby. Never found them very reliable tbh.

 

[cobrauk]

They do work but when i say cheap i do not mean £10 from aldi, they do need to be calibrated as well and be set to pick up electricity not metal

 

[telectrix]

is that junction box one you've put in, or is it original?

 

[driverman]

What are those cables feeding? Also the flexes? Looking at pic are those cables within 150mm of corner? Not that I agree with that rule, I've never done it nor will I. To me it appears the cables/flex are to the side of an architrave.

 

[jreed110]

No that was part of a temporary fix the electrician put in awaiting the cable being replaced. There is another now on the lower part where the wires are exposed. The cabling ran through plastic trunking completely hidden under plasterboard with no boxes of any type on the surface.

 

[driverman]

No that was part of a temporary fix the electrician put in awaiting the cable being replaced. There is another now on the lower part where the wires are exposed. The cabling ran through plastic trunking completely hidden under plasterboard with no boxes of any type on the surface.

Well at least you got some capping, may assist any rewiring that you may be doing. Surprised capping was used if its dot n dab plaster as from what I can gather many sparks don't. I would of used capping, but metal though. what are the flexes feeding?

 

[jreed110]

The cables are apparently feeding the under floor heating, sorry for my ignorance but by flexes are you referring to the wiring inside the calls? It all comes within the 150mm, just. I gather from the replies the general belief is that this is how most sparks would fit these cables, without any kind of exterior box indicating they are there?

 

[Kate]

Well at least you got some capping, may assist any rewiring that you may be doing. Surprised capping was used if its dot n dab plaster as from what I can gather many sparks don't. I would of used capping, but metal though. what are the flexes feeding?

Thats not dot and dab. Just plastered.

What if there is no other easy way of getting cables between floors?? I disagree with anyone who thinks this electrician did wrong. The regs clearly state within 150mm of a corner and they have complied with this

 

[driverman]

The cables are apparently feeding the under floor heating, sorry for my ignorance but by flexes are you referring to the wiring inside the calls? It all comes within the 150mm, just. I gather from the replies the general belief is that this is how most sparks would fit these cables, without any kind of exterior box indicating they are there?

Yes, apparently so. As i said earlier I disagree with that rule, for the very reason you are now experiencing. In my opinion it's just asking for trouble in the future. Others though may disagree.

 

[Kate]

Title of the thread is 'is this against regulations'
To answer. No its not. But electricians have differing opinions that they apply to their own workmanship

 

[driverman]

Title of the thread is 'is this against regulations'
To answer. No its not. But electricians have differing opinions that they apply to their own workmanship

hi Kate, I'm not saying and never have said, it's against the regs. Mind you it was in the past. I was just brought up never to do that. So, by todays standards it does comply.

 

[Kate]

Only time ive ever done it is to get from floor to floor usually on a rewire. But my preferred option is to find a cupboard and use trunking instead

 

[jreed110]

Thats not dot and dab. Just plastered.

What if there is no other easy way of getting cables between floors?? I disagree with anyone who thinks this electrician did wrong. The regs clearly state within 150mm of a corner and they have complied with this

I'm not criticising the fact the cables needed to be put there, my point is that there were hidden with no external box identifying that they were running along this line. For a layman like myself I was unaware of the 150mm rule and have only looked for sockets etc and avoided vertical or horizontal lines to them.

 

[jreed110]

Only time ive ever done it is to get from floor to floor usually on a rewire. But my preferred option is to find a cupboard and use trunking instead

This was a cupboard, again that's why I'm surprised they were hidden underneath as elsewhere in the cupboard there is trunking running wires externally rather than under the plaster. I don't understand why they'd need to be hidden away at all in an under stair cupboard.

 

[Octopus]

I'm not criticising the fact the cables needed to be put there, my point is that there were hidden with no external box identifying that they were running along this line. For a layman like myself I was unaware of the 150mm rule and have only looked for sockets etc and avoided vertical or horizontal lines to them.

I think only sparks are aware of safe zones. Another fxck up from the idiots that come up with such rules and regs. They need to publicise it, and not to sparks!

 

[Paul.M]

Looking at the picture only, are you sure there was not a heating control on that wall where the temporary junction box is?

I only ask due to the cable capping being cut so well, height of it, spacing of it, location of it, the holes in the wall are the same shape/size of a back box fitting. Also why did your electrician start taking off plaster at that point and not at the holes you have drilled level to the shelving brackets?

Cable faults via drilling through plaster we normally look at the point where it was drilled, not a foot above it? Then we repair it where it is damaged using different methods suitable to the fault. Never seen a "drilling fault" fixed by randomly taking off plaster a foot above and installing a junction box??

 

[SirKit Breaker]

All the required design information should have been included in the job pack at handover on completion of the install along with the certs, and then passed to the homeowner. This should include cable routings etc etc. Although the only types of installation where BS7671 states this are Agricultural/Horticultural, it is still good practice to give this info for any installation. I always did this, and kept a copy myself in case i ever had to go back for any reason. Its a small detail, that could have saved a lot of grief. Does the work comply, i don't know, i would need to see it to comment.

Cheers.............Howard

 

[PEG]

To answer the OP's initial questions,this is par for the course,on a new build,did a repair years back,in a brand new 4 bed job,customer found shower feed cable,fitting shelf on wall in bedroom (studded) bathroom being next door. Your other query regarding NHBC insurance,forget it,they have have swerved every defect i am aware of personally,including one large,detached 5 bedroom new-build,that had NO working drains,an incorrectly installed Bio-filter system(that incurred £1200 worth of damage due to the fitting) and an illegal outfall from topwater....they are almost like a scheme...that has a fee...and is of little use...with no consequence...sounds familiar...:icon12:

 

[jreed110]

Looking at the picture only, are you sure there was not a heating control on that wall where the temporary junction box is?

I only ask due to the cable capping being cut so well, height of it, spacing of it, location of it, the holes in the wall are the same shape/size of a back box fitting. Also why did your electrician start taking off plaster at that point and not at the holes you have drilled level to the shelving brackets?

Cable faults via drilling through plaster we normally look at the point where it was drilled, not a foot above it? Then we repair it where it is damaged using different methods suitable to the fault. Never seen a "drilling fault" fixed by randomly taking off plaster a foot above and installing a junction box??

No the wall was completely flat with nothing showing at all. The holes you see are where a bracket was placed that has sice even taken down, if you look again you'll see the holes I've drilled in the wall where he's cut the plaster away. The electrician started at the bottom still hole and on seeing the cabling running directly up through several other holes I had drilled checked for further damage to the cable, which unfortunately there was. The fuse didn't trip until the very last hole at the bottom so I had no idea I'd already gone through several times.

 

[driverman]

Off track a bit as it's Christmas. I wonder how many nails, pins etc will be put into walls especially in the corners for Christmas decorations etc? The mind boggles. Installations like above, the cables are only the depth of skimming! I've also wondered about people putting in wireless PIR's which are generally sited in the corners of rooms.