Discuss 'Landlords supply' necessity/legality in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

Reaction score
3
TLDR: is there a legal requirement to have a landlords supply to power an L2 alarm system?

Mornin'. Non-electrician, under the cosh from an iffy managing agent. One of four leasehold flats in a three story Victorian semi, converted to flats in the mid 1980s. It's an HMO for fire/health/safety purposes.

Ryefield board, meters etc are the external steps to the main front door. At present, I'm supplying electricity to the common parts from my aged metal CU (conveniently situated above the door to my flat, ie inches from the common parts). Bit of a mishmash... a PIR porch light and associated immersion timer appears to be spurred from a double socket in my livingroom (which makes 'geographical' sense); the entryphone / door release and the hallway lights have a dedicated fuse on my CU.

Over two years ago now, a fire/health/safety inspection identified the need for alarms and emergency lighting in the common parts. This has been batted back and forth between the managing agent (MA) and the leaseholders, with at least two Section 20 notices being issued and quietly forgotten about. The MA now sprung the following on us:

a) a notification that Company X is the cheapest quote for the alarm, and a request for immediate(ish) payment

b) a mystery report conducted by Company Y containing the words "The installation appears to be taken power from one of the individual flats. Is our opinion that, due to the absence of landlord supply, that is essential to feed the emergency services, a new landlord system is required. The Mains Power System is taken into accounts, the requirements for Landlord Lights & Power and therefore an application for meter will be required immediately after works. Please see attached the scope of works required to bring the property in line with current regulations." The 'scope of works' looks... daunting!

Firstly, we supplied quotes from a British Fire Consortium member who does a lot of work in the area. Was significantly more expensive than Company X, because it included replacing my CU and spurring another unit from my CU into the hallway for isolation etc etc. Company X are basically the MA's pet sparks, who AFAIK have no specialist fire alarm knowledge, and who I believe are far too cozy with the MA. Our quote seems to have been completely disregarded.

Company X's quote made no mention of how the alarm was to be powered. This is obviously addressed by Company Y's report. 'Curiously', Company Y (incorporated this summer!) share an address/directors with Company X.

So in our case Company Y's recommendation of a landlords supply is effectively subsidising the headline cost of Company X's fire alarm quote; more generally getting leaseholders to pay for unsolicited reports which generate billing for a sister company seems like a nice money spinner!

But back on topic: the system (as proposed by the BFC member) is basically detection/sounders and emergency lighting in the common parts and just inside the front doors of the three flats off the common parts, plus detection/sounder run to the basement flat. I believe that two years ago it was described as an L2 system, if that still applies in 2020.

The big question: is there a legal requirement to have a landlords supply for such an alarm system?

I am perfectly happy to continue to pay for electricity to the common parts; the other residents are happy to contribute to my shiny new CU as part of the works in return for their 'free' electricity. A metered landlords supply will be monetised by the MA: the electricity bill may be at charged at cost, but I can guarantee there'll be additional 'management fees' attached.

Is it legal to continue to supply the common parts from my CU (with spurred CU in common parts to provide isolation)?

Alternatively, is it legal to spur power from the supply to my flat before it reaches my CU? The cabling is easily accessible in a boxed riser in the common parts. This would mean I can switch off my supply whenever I fancy it; as long as I continue to pay my electricity bill the alarm system will be powered. And I suspect (hope) there's more of a chance of the MA going bust or to prison than there is of me having my electricity disconnected!

Any advise gratefully received.
 
In a nutshell, yes there is. Section 560 of BS7671 basically says that any power supply to a safety system must be independant of other supplies.

Practical application for you, from my quick read of your post, is that the LL/Leaseholder will need to install a dedicated supply to a new consumer unit to feed the alarm system.
 
In a nutshell, yes there is. Section 560 of BS7671 basically says that any power supply to a safety system must be independant of other supplies.

Practical application for you, from my quick read of your post, is that the LL/Leaseholder will need to install a dedicated supply to a new consumer unit to feed the alarm system.
Thanks. And bugger. But...

A quick google throws up '560.7.1 Circuits of safety services, e.g. fire detection and alarm systems, CO detection and alarm systems, shall be independent of other circuits.'

Doesn't a 'slot' on a CU constitute a circuit? Common parts aren't presently 'independent' - as I said, porch light and timer are spurred from my sockets - but wouldn't transferring all common parts devices to a dedicated breaker on a new CU make it 'independent of other circuits'?

EDIT: or rather, one for emergency stuff, another for regular lighting, entryphone etc
 
Last edited:
560.6.1
The following electrical sources for safety services are recognised:
(i) Storage batteries
(ii) Primary Cells
(iii) Generator sets independent of the normal supply
(iv) A separate feeder off the supply network that is effectively independent of the normal feeder

Also relevant is 560.6.3 "Safety sources shall only be installed in a suitable location and be accessible only to a skilled or instructed person"

NB.... 560.7.1 goes on to say "This means that any electrical fault or anny intervention or modification in one system must not affect the correct functioning of the other."

Had this work been done 10 years you'd have probably gotten away with doing as you hope, but the regs have tightened up massively in this area recently, especially post Grenfell. Any provider is going to stick rigidly to the book now, just to cover themselves.
 
560.6.1
The following electrical sources for safety services are recognised:
(i) Storage batteries
(ii) Primary Cells
(iii) Generator sets independent of the normal supply
(iv) A separate feeder off the supply network that is effectively independent of the normal feeder

Also relevant is 560.6.3 "Safety sources shall only be installed in a suitable location and be accessible only to a skilled or instructed person"

NB.... 560.7.1 goes on to say "This means that any electrical fault or anny intervention or modification in one system must not affect the correct functioning of the other."

Had this work been done 10 years you'd have probably gotten away with doing as you hope, but the regs have tightened up massively in this area recently, especially post Grenfell. Any provider is going to stick rigidly to the book now, just to cover themselves.
Bugger. Again.
 
I feel your pain. I had this kind of issue with a leasehold repair roof 25 years ago - what started out as a quick fix that nobody wanted to pay for turned into a £300k legal battle!!
Nice. Hopefully this will provide the impetus we collectively need to go for Right To Manage. But I'm mostly looking forward to the day I quit London and move to a freehold house. Leasehold is bad for my mental health!
 

Reply to 'Landlords supply' necessity/legality in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock