new builds with no rcd protection?!?

[michaelw6]

i have recently been into a couple of property's which are apartments with no rcd protection. there are about 40 of these apartments in this block all of which i assume are the same.
i have checked the main incomer which just goes through an isolator and 80a mcb to the apartment with two supplies, these go into a quickline 2 board with two main isolators either side split peak and off peak.
with 17th edition i did not think this would be aloud.

Im requesting they change the mcbs for rcbos what are your views in case ive missed something here!

 

[Plonker 3]

You say new build. But how old and when were they designed?

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[Deleted member 26818]

When were the apartments designed?
If the design was made to the 16th edition, then there would have been no requirement for RCD protection, even if construction commenced after the 17th edition was introduced.

 

[Guitarist]

When were the EIC's signed off?

 

[Top Cat]

You say new build. But how old and when were they designed?

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Where did it say new build?

 

[Guest55]

Where did it say new build?

er , look above every post lol.

 

[Plonker 3]

Where did it say new build?

In the title of the thread.

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[Deleted member 26818]

In the title.

 

[Top Cat]

In the title of the thread.

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OOOPPPSSS didn't read that! Sorry!

 

[Plonker 3]

Thats fine its Friday night so I wouldn't expect anyone to be completly coherant at this time of night.

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[Knobhead]

OOOPPPSSS didn't read that! Sorry!

Benny wears glasses so why shouldn't TC?

 

[Top Cat]

Benny wears glasses so why shouldn't TC?

I thought they were ears!

 

[StuSpiers]

It's not an absolute requirement circuits are rcd protected.

Rcd's are often the most cost efficient way of satisfying bs7671 but not the only way.

Check the wiring systems.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Unless you use SELV for locations containing baths or showers, every 17th edition installation with such a location will require at least one circuit to have RCD protection.

 

[StuSpiers]

you say apartments.

Skilled person present?

Janitor/care taker with relevant qualifications?


I agree they should have at least some rcd protection but just trying to think of why they wouldn't.

I guess you could also rule out use of exterior sockets/appliances on anything above ground floor.

 

[spark 68]

you say apartments.

Skilled person present?

Janitor/care taker with relevant qualifications?

You cannot use the skilled/instructed person rules in a domestic installation.

 

[AndyL]

It's not an absolute requirement circuits are rcd protected.

Rcd's are often the most cost efficient way of satisfying bs7671 but not the only way.

Check the wiring systems.

Surely they would have a few sockets in the apartments though, which would need RCD however they are wired

 

[StuSpiers]

Yup I agree I've been reading and I cant really see any valid loop holes as to why they wouldn't put them in.

either designed to 16th or not designed to bs7671 (not law don't forget) don't ask me how they got signed off though.

 

[michaelw6]

Yup I agree I've been reading and I cant really see any valid loop holes as to why they wouldn't put them in.

either designed to 16th or not designed to bs7671 (not law don't forget) don't ask me how they got signed off though.

yes 16th edition design i reckon.
but i dont thing there should be no rcd protection at all even 16 required some protection.
although both apartments i checked were not on ground floor...

 

[Guest55]

You cannot use the skilled/instructed person rules in a domestic installation.

With one exception - an electricians home.
Seriously.
Think about it.

 

[jdd]

If it was designed to the 16th edition, you could get away with no rcd protection in flats above ground floor where sockets would not be expected to be used outside and supplementary bonding was across all bathroom circuits.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Yea but only if you live on your own and the GF or the significant other is 17th compliant lol

 

[Risteard]

With one exception - an electricians home.
Seriously.
Think about it.

No, you can't, because you can't control who else comes into the home. No domestic dwelling can be considered to be under the control of anything other than an ordinary person under any circumstances. The guidance will confirm this.

 

[pjcomp]

Wiring in steel conduit? Unlikely in this day and age but would make it 17th compliant - RCD needed where no other protection, and all that. An RCD isn't a 17th must-have, it's just the easiest way to meet the requirements.

PJ

 

[jumpin jax]

Yup I agree I've been reading and I cant really see any valid loop holes as to why they wouldn't put them in.

either designed to 16th or not designed to bs7671 (not law don't forget) don't ask me how they got signed off though.

They probably got signed off because , as usual, the building inspector doesn't know what he is looking at and just sees a certificate. The blame at the end of the day lies with the person who signs the certificate.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Wiring in steel conduit? Unlikely in this day and age but would make it 17th compliant - RCD needed where no other protection, and all that. An RCD isn't a 17th must-have, it's just the easiest way to meet the requirements.

PJ

With few exceptions it is a requirement for sockets though.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Wiring in steel conduit? Unlikely in this day and age but would make it 17th compliant - RCD needed where no other protection, and all that. An RCD isn't a 17th must-have, it's just the easiest way to meet the requirements.

PJ

It is if you want a bathroom in the property that utilizes 230volts circuits and sockets outlets to BS 1363

 

[Guitarist]

With one exception - an electricians home.
Seriously.
Think about it.

Unless the electrician has family living there who are unskilled.

 

[Des 56]

Unless the electrician has family living there who are unskilled.

It could sometimes be applied to the electrician living there as well :shame: :smiley2:

 

[Dave 85]

If its not ground floor, there's no need for RCD under 16th if you ask me.

 

[Guest55]

Unless the electrician has family living there who are unskilled.

i keep telling the wife to hammer picture frame nails directly above sockets and switches.
No joy yet though.
:-D

 

[Guest55]

No, you can't, because you can't control who else comes into the home. No domestic dwelling can be considered to be under the control of anything other than an ordinary person under any circumstances. The guidance will confirm this.

Just playing devils advocate for one moment.....
Everyone who lives or comes into your house doesnt need to be an electrician , so long as the installation remains under the supervision of a skilled individual , which it does if a spark lives there......

 

[sedgy34]

They could be 16th edition having been designed and built when the 17th came into affect so 16th would be satisfactory

 

[Dave 85]

yes 16th edition design i reckon.
but i dont thing there should be no rcd protection at all even 16 required some protection.
although both apartments i checked were not on ground floor...

Why does 16th require some RCD protection? There are no sockets that can supply outdoor equipment, that we know, and its not a TT system. No need for RCD. All the guys banging on about steel conduit, SELV, and cross bonding are simply complicating the matter. Its quite obviously a 16th edition install. Nowhere has the op stated they have been built since 2009. Why he doensnt know the age of the building/installation is beyond me.

 

[michaelw6]

well taking into consideration that you will have no skilled person. there is no paperwork with the owners or building, so no date as to when it was designed or built. and i have tried to look up age of building but no one seems to know.
so i have put in a quote to put in some rcbo,s. to satisfy 17th.
as it stands thats all i can think of doing to cover my back.

 

[SKY]

Could the properties all be 17th edition with the cables >50mm in the wall?

 

[Strima]

It could sometimes be applied to the electrician living there as well :shame: :smiley2:

Especially the Electrical Trainee's... :lol:

 

[michaelw6]

Could the properties all be 17th edition with the cables >50mm in the wall?

do you know what i never thought of that one.lol
but its been around a little while, according to the letting agents.
cheers.
some times the simplest things...

 

[sparks1973]

Benny wears glasses so why shouldn't TC?

should have a knitted hat as well...with a bobble on the top....

 

[needasparks]

Easy way is to look at the first two digits of the meter serial number after the letter pre-fix, will give you the year installed.