new reqs

[Knobhead]

Do you do many EICR's mate?

Good question

Is this a loaded question? Yes!!

As you are the MD of a company that does mainly railway work (from one of your earlier post) I find it strange you should do any EICR’s.
You should have minions to do the tedious work while you concentrate on keeping the rail system going.

 

[Knobhead]

UKESRail, you've been rumbled as a charlatan.

If you’re going to tell porkies, try to remember the storyline. You’ll need it to give creadence to anything you say in future.

 

[Guest125]

What does the RISQS initials stand for??

Sounds like someone (or Organization) has been well and truly hooked by all the hype the NICEIC spurts out!! lol!!

Railway Industry Supplies Qualification Scheme.

You cannot work for Network Rail without it.

 

[Guest125]

None of which mean anything to me. But if what UKESRail has stated is correct, then they seem to be relying on NICEIC membership to authenticate this ''RISQS'' card and maybe the others you mention here. I can't think of a worse move myself, far better to conduct your own assessment, if you're going to issue a card as a restrictive approval requirement!!

It is not a card but a membership. It does include an audit they can take upto 3 days in which the assesor girs through a whole liad of things drpending on the type of work you carry out. Come on, we all know how powerful the NICEIC brand os outside of the electricians world. Like it or not.

 

[Guest125]

In order to obtain any of the cards I have mentioned, you first have to have an ECS/CSCS skill card.
As I've already stated, I am not, and never have been registered with the NICEIC.

There is a difference between obtaining a PTS csrd and being contracted by Network Rail. Anyone can pay £200 and go on a two day course to get a PTS card. But the audit to work firect for NR is a little tougher.

 

[Guest125]

Good question



As you are the MD of a company that does mainly railway work (from one of your earlier post) I find it strange you should do any EICR’s.
You should have minions to do the tedious work while you concentrate on keeping the rail system going.

I started the company when it was just me on my own in 2010 mate. This year we have a team of 7. But I still get out there with the lads. I don't think of myself as that important to be honest. The company os only as good as the guys who work for me. They are the grafters. I am the minion.

You sound like a lovely bloke to work for.

 

[Plonker 3]

we all know how powerful the NICEIC brand os outside of the electricians world. Like it or not.

Just because people have heard of it doesnt mean its a good brsnd though does it?

Alot of these home renovation programmes and the likes of Dominic Littlewood have alot to answer for because they say you should use a contractor registered with them.

If you want to know how bad they and the other scams are research how many they have removed from being registered with them due to bad working practises, then how many they prosecute for using their brand when not a member of them.

 

[Guest125]

UKESRail, you've been rumbled as a charlatan.

If you’re going to tell porkies, try to remember the storyline. You’ll need it to give creadence to anything you say in future.

You writing a few sentences on here does not mean I am rumbled mate. Company details are all available to look at so please feel fee. Just please return on here and apologise to me for saying I am lying when you do.

 

[Guest125]

Just because people have heard of it doesnt mean its a good brsnd though does it?

Alot of these home renovation programmes and the likes of Dominic Littlewood have alot to answer for because they say you should use a contractor registered with them.

If you want to know how bad they and the other scams are research how many they have removed from being registered with them due to bad working practises, then how many they prosecute for using their brand when not a member of them.

Oh trust me. I am not disagreeing with you. They are a business end of. I dod not want to join and done so through muffled swear words under my breath. My point was anyone who is not electrically minded sees them as the Holy Grail. This happens in the railways to.

 

[Plonker 3]

Fair enough, its just you seem to quote them a awful lot recently to back up your point.

 

[Guest125]

Fair enough, its just you seem to quote them a awful lot recently to back up your point.

Just as a reference. I do not think they are all bad. It is particually the DI scheme and the fact that you can become a QS now without having your 2391, 2394/2395 that bothers me about the NICEIC.

 

[Engineer54]

Fair enough, its just you seem to quote them a awful lot recently to back up your point.

He could be excused doing so if this was 20-25 years ago (maybe as long as 30 years ago) when the NICEIC was a respected organisation!!That respect has long gone within the industry, ever since money and shareholders became it's prime and driving force...

 

[Anthony S]

Just as a reference. I do not think they are all bad. It is particually the DI scheme and the fact that you can become a QS now without having your 2391, 2394/2395 that bothers me about the NICEIC.

If it bothers you that much then your shouldn't help fund them then should you. I don't and won't fund any of them. Anyhow have you got your 2391 ?

 

[Guest125]

If it bothers you that much then your shouldn't help fund them then should you. I don't and won't fund any of them. Anyhow have you got your 2391 ?

It did used to bother me but I got over it. Me being bothered about it or not is not going to change anything. I am not funding them, my clients are because I pass on the cost. They want a NICEIC electrician then my rates will go up.

No I do not have my 2391 or the modern equivalent. But then I may not be the QS.....

 

[David M]

Hey guys give UKESRail a break, since he is registered with the NICEIC then he is required by them to comply with their "regs". We all know the NICEIC is nothing more than a money making scam these days. But UKESRail has a point, the NICEIC seems to have the monopoly, many companies and a good chunk of the general public are brain washed into believing that you are not a qualified electrician unless you are registered with the NIC.

An electrician friend of mine, who is a very good spark, highly skilled and very knowledgeable has been forced into registering with the NIC so he can gain a very good contract on a large well known company. They would not accept any of his qualifications or any of the other organisations he was registered with.!

The head honchos at the NIC are rubbing their hands as they cruise on the Med sipping on the champers, aboard their million dollar yachts!

 

[Guest125]

Hey guys give UKESRail a break, since he is registered with the NICEIC then he is required by them to comply with their "regs". We all know the NICEIC is nothing more than a money making scam these days. But UKESRail has a point, the NICEIC seems to have the monopoly, many companies and a good chunk of the general public are brain washed into believing that you are not a qualified electrician unless you are registered with the NIC.

An electrician friend of mine, who is a very good spark, highly skilled and very knowledgeable has been forced into registering with the NIC so he can gain a very good contract on a large well known company. They would not accept any of his qualifications or any of the other organisations he was registered with.!

The head honchos at the NIC are rubbing their hands as they cruise on the Med sipping on the champers, aboard their million dollar yachts!

You made the point much better than I have been attempting to. Thanks. Their marketing department is very very good at getting them to where they are. But we all know it is about how you are perceived not what you deliver. This is true in every single industry. Look at the food and drinks market. Red Bull gives you wings apparently, not heart attacks.

 

[Plonker 3]

What marketing department? I have never seen ad advert for them on civvie street, as for the idiots who i mentioned earlier on property development programmes them they advertise them more than anything else.

 

[Guest125]

What marketing department? I have never seen ad advert for them on civvie street, as for the idiots who i mentioned earlier on property development programmes them they advertise them more than anything else.

My point exactly. You do not even know they exist but be sure as hell they are there.

 

[andyelectric]

I am not an NICEIC member but I don't think that there is any argument that NICEIC are the most recognised scheme out there domestically. The fact they are trading on a former 'good name' may not be liked but is common nowadays in large business. And it is fact that often NICEIC will be requested, so as a business they must be advertising in an effective manner. The fact is that their members carry out most of the advertising by big signs on their vans, and as Dillb says the fact they have been long running gets them mentioned on TV etc.

 

[Engineer54]

Hey guys give UKESRail a break, since he is registered with the NICEIC then he is required by them to comply with their "regs". We all know the NICEIC is nothing more than a money making scam these days. But UKESRail has a point, the NICEIC seems to have the monopoly, many companies and a good chunk of the general public are brain washed into believing that you are not a qualified electrician unless you are registered with the NIC.

An electrician friend of mine, who is a very good spark, highly skilled and very knowledgeable has been forced into registering with the NIC so he can gain a very good contract on a large well known company. They would not accept any of his qualifications or any of the other organisations he was registered with.!

The head honchos at the NIC are rubbing their hands as they cruise on the Med sipping on the champers, aboard their million dollar yachts!

Which begs the question of just how do they manage to wangle their way into these companies to make them the ''preferred accreditation organisation'' if they are not spending money on promotional advertising?? Nothing underhand going on surely!! lol!!

 

[JD6400]

It did used to bother me but I got over it. Me being bothered about it or not is not going to change anything. I am not funding them, my clients are because I pass on the cost. They want a NICEIC electrician then my rates will go up.

No I do not have my 2391 or the modern equivalent. But then I may not be the QS.....

I thought you needed to have a QS to be full scope with the NICEIC ?

 

[JD6400]

Which begs the question of just how do they manage to wangle their way into these companies to make them the ''preferred accreditation organisation'' if they are not spending money on promotional advertising?? Nothing underhand going on surely!! lol!!

And yes you are quite right Engineer54 , I have seen it strongly implied , first hand and not by one of the grunt's on the ground either !

 

[Guest125]

I thought you needed to have a QS to be full scope with the NICEIC ?

You do but it does not need to be me. It is me though.....

 

[JD6400]

With out 2391 !?

 

[Guest125]

With out 2391 !?

Yep. You only need to show your ability to test and knowledge.

 

[David M]

With out 2391 !?

I remember when I did my 2391, there was a guy there doing his who admittedly did not properly understand testing, just couldn't get his head round it. Yeah sure, he could do continuity and bang a meg test on a circuit but he never could get his head fully round the results. He muddled his way through and somehow passed. We became good friends and he is a very good hands on spark, but still now he always asks me to verify his results after testing because he still does not fully grasp it.
I believe that a good assessor should take note of someone's competence as presidency over their actual qualifications.

I'm sure most of us have come across folk who on paper should be master tradesmen but in real life practice are useless

 

[JD6400]

I do agree with you on the last bit David , but I find it quite astounding that they do not require the 2391 or what ever the equivalent is now days as at least a bench mark to becoming a QS .
I know the scams have ripped the arse out of the domestic market , but did not know they had started on the commercial side as well now!
This will no doubt get a few peoples backs up , but I personally believe the minimum of 2391 or equivalent should be attained by anyone who is on their own , and definitely if you own a company employing others .

 

[Risteard]

I personally believe the minimum of 2391 or equivalent should be attained by anyone who is on their own , and definitely if you own a company employing others .

2391 was introduced by the NICEIC for QSs or QMs but removed because too few were passing it. But it hasn't been required for a long, long time so I'm not sure why you are surprised about this?

 

[David M]

I do agree with you on the last bit David , but I find it quite astounding that they do not require the 2391 or what ever the equivalent is now days as at least a bench mark to becoming a QS .
I know the scams have ripped the arse out of the domestic market , but did not know they had started on the commercial side as well now!
This will no doubt get a few peoples backs up , but I personally believe the minimum of 2391 or equivalent should be attained by anyone who is on their own , and definitely if you own a company employing others .

Yeah but as Risteard states, too few were passing it. The NICEIC is a business and in its business quantity (membership numbers) is now the priority.

 

[JD6400]

Never been NICEIC commercially , only on their PV side for another company I helped out . But had just assumed it would be required .

 

[David M]

Never been NICEIC commercially , only on their PV side for another company I helped out . But had just assumed it would be required .

there is nothing wrong with proving using some sort of evidence, that a person is very competent to inspect and test and be able to verify the results.

After all, the primary reason for an I&T is to prove that the installation is safe to use. That it has been installed using the correct equipment and accessories and if any future fault occurred any safety devices would operate in such a manner as to reduce the risk of injury or death.

This I feel is quite a responsibility and the person confirming the safety of the installation should be well aware of any faults and be able to recognise potential problems that may cause harm. This requires understanding of how the safety equipment operates and what is required for them to operate efficiently and correctly.

 

[JD6400]

I agree David , But I would expect at least 2391 as the bench mark . Even then I would hope that a in depth understanding would be proved as well, to gain a QS position .
I know ECA made me work for it !

 

[David M]

I agree David , But I would expect at least 2391 as the bench mark . Even then I would hope that a in depth understanding would be proved as well, to gain a QS position .
I know ECA made me work for it !

Yes and that bench mark was adopted then discarded, for what I believe was greed. Which of course is only my personal opinion.

Safety should always take presidency, but I'm afraid even in this day and age money makes the world go round.

 

[JD6400]

Yes and that bench mark was adopted then discarded, for what I believe was greed. Which of course is only my personal opinion.

Safety should always take presidency, but I'm afraid even in this day and age money makes the world go round.

I know !

 

[Guest125]

I agree David , But I would expect at least 2391 as the bench mark . Even then I would hope that a in depth understanding would be proved as well, to gain a QS position .
I know ECA made me work for it !

But then the ECA give automatic membership with a NICEIC accreditation.

 

[JD6400]

But then the ECA give automatic membership with a NICEIC accreditation.

How long has this been the case ?

Our once proud industry is on its knees

 

[Anthony S]

2391 was introduced by the NICEIC for QSs or QMs but removed because too few were passing it. But it hasn't been required for a long, long time so I'm not sure why you are surprised about this?

They worked along side City & Guilds to produce the course/exams and like you say too few were passing it.

The membership would of really took a battering if they kept enforcing the requirement, that's why they move the goal posts to keep numbers on the registry.

I remember when they got so many thousands of DI packs ready thinking they were going to mop up, only to be told from the powers in Government they are not going down the Corgi (at the time but now Safe Gas) route and having only one registration body.

That's why all the other registration freeloaders got a shot at money for old rope the like of napit etc

 

[Guest125]

How long has this been the case ?

Our once proud industry is on its knees

For as long as I know. You even get a nice welcome to the ECA letter when you join the NIC.

 

[Leesparkykent]

when i joined the the ECA, the inspector came out and watched me do a few tests and was only interested in seeing my NVQ3 and didnt care about any of my other qualifications.

 

[Risteard]

For as long as I know. You even get a nice welcome to the ECA letter when you join the NIC.

As I understand it, there is a "deemed to satisfy" route to ECA membership whereby NICEIC membership is one of the options. There is another option for those who aren't on any of these schemes (as indeed there is an ECA Certification Scheme).

There are, however, turnover requirements for ECA membership.

 

[trev]

I believe that a good assessor should take note of someone's competence as presidency over their actual qualifications.

However, any electrician worth their salt should be able to inspect, test and interpret results. It's a fundamental part of the job and one which we are taught during our time.
JMO

 

[johnsparks23]

Think if you join/sign-up with the IET you pay a Free and get future discounts on books etc..
my apprentice told me this, so it's probably complete ********

 

[shanky887614]

Think if you join/sign-up with the IET you pay a Free and get future discounts on books etc..
my apprentice told me this, so it's probably complete ********

yes you get a discount but it costs £150 ish for it.

i registered at first as an apprentice for £20 but then the renewal was over £100.

my stepdad gets the mags free from work and a lot of it is boring so it doesnt usually get opened

 

[johnsparks23]

Yes £20 is the fig I was told. Which works out okay with the discount on the regs and OSG. Can't see me rushing out to buy either, hardly looked at the BGB, accept in the update exam.

 

[Engineer54]

when i joined the the ECA, the inspector came out and watched me do a few tests and was only interested in seeing my NVQ3 and didnt care about any of my other qualifications.

That sounds about right, putting too much faith in a qualification that is open to abuse from the unscrupulous, while the genuine qualifications are given at best a cursory glance!!!

 

[richy3333]

it's only too much if you drown in it.

No, that makes it too deep!

 

[richard12]

Hi everyone new member to this forum but been sparking since 2004. With regards to new regs what I have never understood is why unlike other industries we are not issued with a folder with loose leaves in. All you have to do is change the relevant page or pages when a revision comes out. The way it is run now is a blatant money spinning operation. Since 2004 this will be the fourth regs book I have had to buy.

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping some of the older threads in the general electrical forum that had a lot of replies. They might not be current topics, if they're not, just ignore them and they'll soon drop off the list. If you DO wish to add a reply and get the conversation going again, feel free to do so. Your input might help somebody else in the future.

 

[andyb]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in another thread but the niceic are doing a deal at the moment, BYB & their site guide for £85.00.
Good deal but I bought it thinking it was the IET on site guide.
Bought it now though, just hope my assessor is happy with the nic guide and not the IET guide as I wont be buying two.