No cpc on light circuit - class 2 lights?

[andyww]

Hi all

I have a customer with no cpc on the lighting circuit - property is a top floor flat with a flat roof above so no access above ceilings. I was looking at the possibility of installing class 2 lights - I've found lots of websites offering class 2 fittings but it's unclear exactly what comes with them. Can you get a simple class 2 rose and pendant? If so, does anyone know where? Other question is on the switches, can you get class 2 switches? and again, if so, where?

Thanks

 

[dufjax]

Hi all

I have a customer with no cpc on the lighting circuit - property is a top floor flat with a flat roof above so no access above ceilings. I was looking at the possibility of installing class 2 lights - I've found lots of websites offering class 2 fittings but it's unclear exactly what comes with them. Can you get a simple class 2 rose and pendant? If so, does anyone know where? Other question is on the switches, can you get class 2 switches? and again, if so, where?

Thanks

If I not mistaken the normal bog standard ceiling rose as it comes is Class 2.
Not so sure on switched but I'd guess at the normal basic white plastic switches could be class 2. I'm not sure if you would have problems with metal back box and metal accessory screws?

Jim

 

[Gaz_c]

Whats the installation type?? PVC/PVC cables or metal conduit with singles cables?

 

[andyww]

it's pvc/pvc. So, are you saying that just a rose and pendant with a bulb is a class 2 fitting and doesn't require a cpc on the circuit?

 

[Gaz_c]

Im A NICEIC qualifying supervisor and would advise you to fail this installation as it does not comply with current bs7671 reg's without looking for the reg because its Sunday, all live conductors in PVC/PVC require a C.P.C (circuit protective conductor) all final circuits i.e Lts need a C.P.C any problems and i will look it up for you.

 

[andyww]

Hi Gaz - me too, and I have failed it. The customer has asked me to provide a solution to the problem - I have said it needs rewiring by either replacing with new T&E or pulling a seperate CPC into the circuit. The challenge is that there is no space above the ceiling, so if any cables get 'lost' when attempting to pull new ones then I have a real problem, only resolvable by pulling the ceiling down. The ESC best prcatice guide states that if the fittings are all class 2 then it is not a fail. Just trying to understand exactly what constitutes a class 2 fitting, and whether this could be a cheaper and less intrusive solution.

 

[cbw]

Gaz, I am sure I have read a NIC guide that directly contradicts what you are saying! Like you I will find it when I get a chance, may be the ESC?

 

[andyww]

you are correct. There are 2 best practice guides that deal with this issue - one is on changing a consumer unit when you have light circuits with no cpc, the other is the periodic inspection report guide that clearly states a code 2 (unsatisfactory) should be assigned to a light circuit with no cpc containing at least one class one fitting - I assume from that, that if the circuit contains only class 2 fittings then it is satisfactory, hence my original question?

 

[flukey]

Im A NICEIC qualifying supervisor and would advise you to fail this installation as it does not comply with current bs7671 reg's without looking for the reg because its Sunday, all live conductors in PVC/PVC require a C.P.C (circuit protective conductor) all final circuits i.e Lts need a C.P.C any problems and i will look it up for you.

thats harsh, you dont know what the op is doing to the circuit. if class 2 fittings are used throughout i cant see a problem

work through the flow chart on the best practice guide and come to the correct conclusion.

all current installs dont HAVE to be brought up to current spec

 

[cbw]

" Im A NICEIC qualifying supervisor and would advise you to fail this installation "

Now my Dads a policeman.....And he says class 2 fittings are fine!!!

 

[andyww]

Thanks for all the advice chaps, but on a practical level: If I fit class 2 throughout the circuit and place the relevant warning sticker on the consumer unit, am I then correct that the installation can be given a 'satisfactory' rating, albeit with a note on the certificate indicating no cpc on lighting and the fact that class 2 equipment has been installed?

 

[Gaz_c]

True True but at the end of it u have to put your name in it, But If class 2 is used through out and documented in the report just to cover your back just in case DIY Sparks decides they want a nice shiny brass bling bling fitting.

 

[cbw]

That has allways been my understanding.

 

[flukey]

True True but at the end of it u have to put your name in it, But If class 2 is used through out and documented in the report just to cover your back just in case DIY Sparks decides they want a nice shiny brass bling bling fitting.

blimey, youve changed your tune

the other alternative is to take the moral high ground and keep telling all your customers that their houses need rewiring and lose the work to me

if they cant afford/dont want a rewire they are quite within their rights to source someone who will carry out the work they want done.

bearing in mind i havent see this particular job i would advise if all double insulated fittings are used then crack on

 

[Gaz_c]

blimey, youve changed your tune

the other alternative is to take the moral high ground and keep telling all your customers that their houses need rewiring and lose the work to me

if they cant afford/dont want a rewire they are quite within their rights to source someone who will carry out the work they want done.

bearing in mind i havent see this particular job i would advise if all double insulated fittings are used then crack on

I don't do house bashing so u can have the work, hence the reason i said no no, because we all know random people come and change fittings so it could cause a problem. its only my opinion but what do i know, i'll stick to process control sorry boys

 

[andyww]

Thanks chaps. So the question is, given no cpc down to switches either, can anyone recommend a switch with no exposed metal parts (i.e. screw heads) that would be suitable? I haven't found anything on the internet that states 'class 2 switch'

 

[Gaz_c]

Thanks chaps. So the question is, given no cpc down to switches either, can anyone recommend a switch with no exposed metal parts (i.e. screw heads) that would be suitable? I haven't found anything on the internet that states 'class 2 switch'

Maybe a beautiful looking IP65 outdoor switch?? what about screw caps the ones u have to use a tool to remove??

 

[cbw]

Now the last house I did with no CPC also had the old style back box with those nightmare nylon lugs, if not as suggested you can get those screw head covers.

 

[flukey]

Thanks chaps. So the question is, given no cpc down to switches either, can anyone recommend a switch with no exposed metal parts (i.e. screw heads) that would be suitable? I haven't found anything on the internet that states 'class 2 switch'

these are the ones i use in these situations 6 Amp Wall Light Switches White Intermediate - GET Ultimate

I don't do house bashing so u can have the work, hence the reason i said no no, because we all know random people come and change fittings so it could cause a problem. its only my opinion but what do i know, i'll stick to process control sorry boys

not all customers can afford a rewire and you can tell them until your blue in the face that they need it doing only for another spark to roll up and do the job anyway, and quite rightly so.

you state you are an NICEIC QUALIFIED SUPERVISOR so you should know about their snags and solutions books, the one on earthing and bonding is a bloody good read

by the way i do domestic, commercial and industrial work but in the current climate where cash is king and the big boys are holding onto theirs for longer and longer i am all for house bashing with cash on completion

 

[RJS Contracts]

Class two fittings are fine i.e All plastic switches and pendants. Phone the NICEIC up and im sure they will confirm this. Just attach warning label to consumer unit. If you are altering circuit it would need rewiring and obviously putting on an RCD.

Hope this helps