No suppliers earth in middle of walthamstow

[paulcopeman]

I went to a job yesterday in walthamstow.
House in middle of terrace built up area.
all I knew was that I was required to quote for installing earth, I assumed this would be for bonding.
when I got there I was surprised to find supply brought in via underground cable wired into a bs88/60A supply head but no earth.
there was no clamp or evidence of ever being a clamp on the sheath nor was there any evidence of it being a tncs system as the extra hole in the neutral side of free service head was still sealed.
a few years ago customer had had some polish builders in who had connected the main earth terminal at DB to metal conduit which carries tails around the cellar from service head to meter (located below DB) and then at the service head end of metal conduit another clamp takes earth from there to water pie.
this is the only reference to earth.

The customer had had EDF round the day before as she has rising damp and had noticed that the wall above a skt was warm. They came round and noticed that what looks like an old water stopcock manhole plate was warm and had steam inside of it???? Apparently they told her that maybe because the wall were wet and that there was no earth coming into the property the electricity was warming everything up.WTF???

anyhow I have told customer to ask electricity supplier to provide earth via TNCS or TNS and if they refuse or otherwise I will have to install an earth rod.

 

[Darkwood]

Just a point, the DNO is under no obligation to provide an earth, if one is already present and available in the cutout they may charge to come out and make the connection, worryingly is the fact you may have a fault existing, I would be very careful here and recommend Isolation of the supply until you can establish if a fault exists and as a temp' measure at least try to provide a earth by rodding, is there RCD protection? ...

If the Polish contractors have messed this end up then who knows what surprises lay ahead with the install :sick:

 

[paulcopeman]

I put the warm walls down to a different problem altogether not electrically related but yes it is a concern that there may be a fault already existing.
There is RCD protection only on skts as is split load 16th edition type DB.

 

[davesparks]

I put the warm walls down to a different problem altogether not electrically related but yes it is a concern that there may be a fault already existing.
There is RCD protection only on skts as is split load 16th edition type DB.

What made you think that the warm walls and steam from the external stopcock are non electrical related?

 

[paulcopeman]

What made you think that the warm walls and steam from the external stopcock are non electrical related?

None of the babies were warm either away from service head or away from db. Everything else that I saw looked as to be expected.
Also the underfloor heating engineers they had round has told them there wasn't enough ventilation below the floorboards and therefore there was comdensation on the underside of the floors.

 

[paulcopeman]

What made you think that the warm walls and steam from the external stopcock are non electrical related?

None of the cables were warm either away from service head or away from db. Everything else that I saw looked as to be expected.
Also the underfloor heating engineers they had round has told them there wasn't enough ventilation below the floorboards and therefore there was comdensation on the underside of the floors.
Also this was the old stopcock cover (I think).
The water supply has been renewed down the street and stopcocks all moved to a different position on the pavement.
There is nothing in this old manhole cover just some dirt and old bricks.

 

[davesparks]

Why would the cables be warm?
That old stopcock position will likely have the old iron waterpipe still in there somewhere and running in to the house. More than likely with the old bare 7/044 earth still connected which used to be the earth for the installation. With no other path to earth a fault current will flow via that path.
Did you think to measure the earth leakage?

 

[DHES]

I had the same thing in Islington and told the DNO and they told me to put a rod in as they do not have to provide an earth connection only maintain one if provided.

 

[paulcopeman]

The old unsheathed earth conductor I found connected at service head end of metallic conduit that was carrying tails. Not connected to anything anymore. The only earths connected in the db or anywhere else along path between service head and db were earth from conduit to new water pipe and the one between m/c and main earth bar at db and the cpcs for all outgoing ccts. I don't think there was any real issue with earth leakage heating anything up.
Thanks for all the advice.
I'll pro ably end up going back to install rod at some point.

 

[DPG]

The old unsheathed earth conductor I found connected at service head end of metallic conduit that was carrying tails. Not connected to anything anymore. The only earths connected in the db or anywhere else along path between service head and db were earth from conduit to new water pipe and the one between m/c and main earth bar at db and the cpcs for all outgoing ccts. I don't think there was any real issue with earth leakage heating anything up.
Thanks for all the advice.
I'll pro ably end up going back to install rod at some point.

Perhaps a bit more urgency is called for here? Daz

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Im keen to know why there is STEAM in this stopcock manhole plate, and why it was warm.
also why above the sockets were warm

 

[paulcopeman]

I must admit it does sound worrying but the customer said that her underfloor heating had been leaking and she has been. Told that the ventilation is not adequate under neath the floorboards (ground floor).I reckon it's been leaking a long time and the rising damp up the walls is warm water from ufh. I reckon the steam is something to do with that. It's not jets of steam. Just I. The manhole u can kinda see some steam like a hot cloth would give off on a cool day.
I tested the skt that was warm above it and Zs was very similar to that of the main switch so I l presume the wiring is as per.
I only went round there to quote for "earthing" she didn't wanna spend any money so what more can I do.
I am expecting to hear from her this week though.
Don't panic you lot.lol

 

[Toonlad]

I bet this woman has a car and doesnt bat an eyelid to have it repaired or serviced. she no doubt has regular holidays also. But wont pay for belt n braces of earthing her property.
These people deserve all that comes to them. It just boils my ****, never mind her stopcock. meh

 

[paulcopeman]

Lol. :30:

 

[the pict]

So Middle Earth is in Walthamstow :6:
Pict

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]