Periodic Report Conundrum

[Hobsoni]

Hello, recently asked to carry out PIR on property. There are test stickers on the cdu to so say it has been passed befoe however client does not have certification. Everything seems in order, but the water pipe thoughout the building is plastic pipe, so there is no bond. (No gas in use either)

On cert- the section regarding characteristics of supply has 'method of protection against indiect contact' normally there is a bond so i would put EEBAD. However in this instance im a bit stumped.........any suggestions??

Many thanks

 

[IQ Electrical]

Hello, recently asked to carry out PIR on property. There are test stickers on the cdu to so say it has been passed befoe however client does not have certification. Everything seems in order, but the water pipe thoughout the building is plastic pipe, so there is no bond. (No gas in use either)

On cert- the section regarding characteristics of supply has 'method of protection against indiect contact' normally there is a bond so i would put EEBAD. However in this instance im a bit stumped.........any suggestions??

Many thanks

Just because there is a 'next inspection' sticker doesn't mean that the installation 'passed' it's previous inspection.

The method of protection will still be ADS (no such thing as EEBAD now) no matter what the water service pipe is made from!

Have you carried out many periodic inspections?

 

[telectrix]

there must be a main earthing conductor, even if there is no bonding. and , as IQ says, it's ADS now ( automatic disconnection of supply ).

 

[Hobsoni]

I undestand that if there is a sticker on the cdu it should not be taken fo granted that it passed, however with NICEIC logo present on the sticker would like to believe it passed. To answer your question i have done my 2391 2 years ago and believe im competant. However, im always keen to learn and if unsure consult a more experienced electrician. Now on the schedule of test results i put automatic disconnection of supply but this being just below characteristics of supply section the software i use does not provide ADS as an option. With every installation i have encountered all services bonded so in that particular section i select EEBAD. The software is megger and is 17th, surely if ADS was the correct option in this particular part of the cert the software would give me the option??

 

[telectrix]

software must be out of date. i would hand write ADS in the box.

 

[Hobsoni]

sure, it does seem strange but i didnt have the self belief to question the brains behind these softwares. But seeing as you guys back the theroy up my mind can be put at ease. Many thanks guys.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I undestand that if there is a sticker on the cdu it should not be taken fo granted that it passed, however with NICEIC logo present on the sticker would like to believe it passed. To answer your question i have done my 2391 2 years ago and believe im competant. However, im always keen to learn and if unsure consult a more experienced electrician. Now on the schedule of test results i put automatic disconnection of supply but this being just below characteristics of supply section the software i use does not provide ADS as an option. With every installation i have encountered all services bonded so in that particular section i select EEBAD. The software is megger and is 17th, surely if ADS was the correct option in this particular part of the cert the software would give me the option??

It doesn't matter what logo is on the sticker, the sticker is routinely applied after an inspection and might even have been applied after the addition of 1 circuit, it does not mean that the installation 'passed'.
The chap conducting the previous inspection applies the sticker to say that he tested whatever he tested, not to say that the installation was 'satisfactory' he then hands his report to the client, full of code 2 defects and the client puts it in a file and forgets about it.

EEBAD was deleted from BS7671 3 years ago, your 2391-10 should certainly have covered this if it was done 2 years ago.

 

[Hobsoni]

It doesn't matter what logo is on the sticker, the sticker is routinely applied after an inspection and might even have been applied after the addition of 1 circuit, it does not mean that the installation 'passed'.
The chap conducting the previous inspection applies the sticker to say that he tested whatever he tested, not to say that the installation was 'satisfactory' he then hands his report to the client, full of code 2 defects and the client puts it in a file and forgets about it.

EEBAD was deleted from BS7671 3 years ago, your 2391-10 should certainly have covered this if it was done 2 years ago.

Totally agree with what your saying regarding the sticker, although i would argue that if it failed why would you put a sticker on saying next test date?? you wouldn't would you, not until it had been resolved and then tested agin???

With regard to ADS, it was a confusion issue with my software. Because, on the sched of test results i apply ADS due to there being no drop down box, however where i applied EEBAD, there was a dop down box and ADS was not there. AS telectrix kindly pointed out the software must be out of date.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Totally agree with what your saying regarding the sticker, although i would argue that if it failed why would you put a sticker on saying next test date?? you wouldn't would you, not until it had been resolved and then tested agin???

There is no requirement for the installation to be assessed as 'satisfactory' before application of the sticker.

"To be fitted on completion of installation work (including alterations and additions) and on completion of each periodic inspection"

This is what I was trying to explain-that existing sticker could apply to just one new circuit!

It's a poor system but it's important to understand it and not make assumptions as to what the sticker represents

 

[telectrix]

on the side of a bus you will see a sticker saying" persil washes whiter " doesn't mean you can leave your washing at the bus depot.

 

[IQ Electrical]

on the side of a bus you will see a sticker saying" persil washes whiter " doesn't mean you can leave your washing at the bus depot.

Why didn't I just say that?

 

[Jay Sparks]

on the side of a bus you will see a sticker saying" persil washes whiter " doesn't mean you can leave your washing at the bus depot.

Ha Ha, I havent heard that saying for a while. My tutor used to say, " Just because theres a picture of a snikers bar on the side of a bus, does'nt mean you can eat it."

Even though the water pipes through out the house are plastic I would still try and convince the customer to have the bonding done. If a plumber comes in to fix a leaking pipe or to do some work a few years down the line and changes a big section of it to copper ( alot of the old guys dont like the plastic ) then he wont automatically think about checking for bonding. If the customer declines to have the bonding done, I would note it on the cert. This is just my opinion and I'm sure others will vary.


Jay

 

[IQ Electrical]

Ha Ha, I havent heard that saying for a while. My tutor used to say, " Just because theres a picture of a snikers bar on the side of a bus, does'nt mean you can eat it."

Even though the water pipes through out the house are plastic I would still try and convince the customer to have the bonding done. If a plumber comes in to fix a leaking pipe or to do some work a few years down the line and changes a big section of it to copper ( alot of the old guys dont like the plastic ) then he wont automatically think about checking for bonding. If the customer declines to have the bonding done, I would note it on the cert. This is just my opinion and I'm sure others will vary.


Jay

If you ask the customer to pay for bonding, he says yes, what do you bond?

No gas supply and plastic water installation inside and out=no extraneous-conductive parts=no bonding requirement and an angry customer if he does a bit of snooping....

 

[Jay Sparks]

I was assuming the stop tap was metal. But thats what I get for assuming!!! I know in my hose ( council ) it comes in 30mm ish plastic to a metal stop tap, then metal again for a meter or so then reduces to 15mm plastic. Prob just cos its a delapadated old crapy council house that bronco billy built back in the day.lol


Jay

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Hello, recently asked to carry out PIR on property. There are test stickers on the cdu to so say it has been passed befoe however client does not have certification. Everything seems in order, but the water pipe thoughout the building is plastic pipe, so there is no bond. (No gas in use either)

On cert- the section regarding characteristics of supply has 'method of protection against indiect contact' normally there is a bond so i would put EEBAD. However in this instance im a bit stumped.........any suggestions??

Many thanks

I have personally never seen or been aware of a "pass" sticker on CU. The ones i apply just state the date of last inspection, and the date of the recommended next inspection. I apply and complete them irrespective of the condition of the installation, as all i am doing is stating 2 facts..When i tested and inspected it, and when in my humble opinion i think it needs re doing based on the finding of the last PIR. The accompanying paperwork says the rest, and i keep a copy just in case anything arises later on.

Cheers..........Howard

 

[IQ Electrical]

I have personally never seen or been aware of a "pass" sticker on CU. The ones i apply just state the date of last inspection, and the date of the recommended next inspection. I apply and complete them irrespective of the condition of the installation, as all i am doing is stating 2 facts..When i tested and inspected it, and when in my humble opinion i think it needs re doing based on the finding of the last PIR. The accompanying paperwork says the rest, and i keep a copy just in case anything arises later on.

Cheers..........Howard

Summed up perfectly

 

[2391bob]

Not being funny mate,but nowhere on the NIC pir does it say method of protection against indiect(sic) contact,DPN4.Although the DCN5 does ask for the same,although you have garnished us with few details,how old is the installation?

 

[2391bob]

Oh, the irony!(Totally unprofessional of course)

 

[SW1970]

Interesting thoughts on the meaning of the PIR label. Accepting the way things are currently, as IQ says, it's a poor system. Is common thinking that the way is should be is that a PIR sticker is not applied until a satisfactory condition is reached? Contrast with the MOT. Can you imagine if you got given the MOT certificate and the mechanic said "the brakes are rubbish and the tyres are bald, but here's your certificate"? Or with the boiler service engineer. "Well there's a bit a gas leak but here's your certificate, you probably want to get it looked at".

 

[alanl]

Interesting thoughts on the meaning of the PIR label. Accepting the way things are currently, as IQ says, it's a poor system. Is common thinking that the way is should be is that a PIR sticker is not applied until a satisfactory condition is reached? ..

When I put one on, on the line 'Date Inspected', I put something like 'Tested circuit one, shower only'. *I think thats probably the best option, as anyone could believe the whole installation has been tested, as per this thread.

Alan.