Qs from a newbie

[lynneinjapan]

Hiya, I'm new to the forum and am thinking of retraining as a domestic electrician/installer (am I right in thinking that strictly speaking you can't call yourself an electrician unless you're qualified to do commercial as well?), and would like to know what folks here think of the idea, given my circumstances.

Bit of background: I'm 41, female, married with 2 young kids (5 and 2 tomorrow), live in Birmingham and have recently taken redundancy from my teaching job. I have a degree in electronic engineering, though all that means is that I'm good at exams - I've forgotten pretty much all of the content and, anyway, my knowledge of domestic electrics is practically non-existent.

Together with my husband I'm a landlord - portfolio grown organically up to now (he moved in with me, his parents moved to a retirement flat, we moved house, and we rented out each vacated house in turn) but we're hoping to grow further over the next few years, including doing some refurb work, so I thought that being able to do my own rewires, PIRs and PAT testing would be useful, and I could also generate a bit of income from doing other domestic electrical work. I've been assured that there's lots of demand for female sparks and I'll never be short of work, and told that the going rate is £60+ per hour (which I'm sure is very optimistic)... but that was by the people offering the training, who of course have a vested interest in getting me to sign up.

I've been looking at what courses are around for mature entrants from outside the trade, and the RF Training 7-week one looks quite good, albeit pricey at £5K + VAT (that does include all the relevant books, exam fees & kit, including a Megger MFT1710). I'm pretty sure I wouldn't qualify for any kind of retraining grants or discounts, so would have to pay full whack. The course includes C&G 2382, Part P, 2392 and Logic Cert. Domestic Periodic Inspection & Testing Award, which I'm told will mean I can do landlords' electrical safety certificates - though I gather from my research on this site that there's no such thing, so I guess he meant PIRs! I also asked about PAT testing and he said they'd include that at no extra charge, although it's not listed as part of the course content.

I understand that employers normally ask for 2391, but given my circumstances and aims, would there be any need for me to do it? They do offer it as an optional extra.

I appreciate that the course doesn't include any on-site experience - there's a lot of practical work but it's all in purpose-built training bays - so I'd hope to spend a bit of time alongside a practising spark before going it completely alone (although the course adviser assured me that I'd be fully competent and confident after just the 7-week course).

Also local to me is the OCLI Domestic Installer course: includes 2382, Part P, 2392-10 and 2377 plus solar PV. So it sounds much the same except that it would enable me to do solar PV (which I can't see myself making much use of, given the imminent drop in FIT payments) but not PIRs. I haven't yet enquired as to course fees or timescales for that one, but I imagine they'll be similar.

What would the additional ongoing / one-off costs be? I'm aware of:
Trade body membership (NICEIC / NAPIT / ELECSA etc.) - £400ish pa
Public liability insurance - about £100pa
Typical additional costs to maintain qualifications???

I'd have £240pw to pay for childcare on top of the course fees, so wouldn't want to spend any longer than necessary with the course not paying for itself! Once qualified, I'd also prefer not to work more than about 3 days a week on a regular basis.

Sorry about the length of this post - if you're still with me then thanks for sticking with it!

What do you reckon - good idea or waste of time & money? RF package better than OCLI one? Any better ideas?

 

[Octopus]

£60 per hour, who told you that?????????

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but I reckon maybe £20 per hour for Brum. 2011 hasn't been good and 2012 - who knows

There's loads of threads about this on the site so please brouse away - good luck.

 

[Markshaw169]

Just for info Think the domestic installers package from Olci is about £3500. Just signed up with them for the 2357. They were trying to throw goodies in for Xmas as well!!

 

[trev]

You would probably get a better deal taking these courses at your local college, true you won't get the test gear at the end of it but with the money you would save you could get some.
£60 ph is way way optimistic and I question that you would be fully competent and confident after 7 weeks but if it's what you want to do go for it

 

[Engineer54]

(the course adviser assured me that I'd be fully competent and confident after just the 7-week course).

You assumed correctly Lynn, there is no-way on this earth that you will be anything close to being a Competent electrician in just 7 weeks!! (Mind, that is a little better than the usual 5 weeks!! lol!!!) This is the typical sales talk they use, that brings in the saps, and to relieve them of there cash... Same goes, ...as far as i can see, for the 60 quid and hour hype...

 

[pjcomp]

After the course you'd probably be technically competent, but when you're house bashing (which it looks like will be your main direction of work) there's only about a third of the work is actual electrics. What they won't tell you on the course is how to route cables from where they are to where the customer wants them, the many different sorts of block and brick you'll find behind the plaster (and how to cope with them), and all the other day-to-day joys that only come from on-the-job experience. Which isn't intended to put you off, quite the opposite - just want you to go into it knowing what's ahead so you don't waste those course fees. Good luck if you do go for it.

PJ

 

[GLENNSPARK]

An evening course at one of the local colleges may be the way forward here methinks....by the way....i commend your enthusiasm and the fact that you have achieved much already.......but check the local colleges first....get the sylabus from em all and spent time studdying em all at your leisure without interference from pushy marketing teams or intimidating sales staff (that will go to considerable lengths to get you to part with cash).....and dont forget....that colleges act as non-profit making organisations as far as i know.....so all funds accrued go back into the college......ready for the next generation/intake to benefit from (new training equipment etc)........loads of helpful folk and useful info in here n all...so welcome to the forum and take a look around......

 

[lynneinjapan]

Thanks for all your replies! Glad I wasn't completely taken in by the sales pitch. I did look at local colleges initially but (a) I was completely bamboozled by what was on offer (I have a better idea of what the quals are now) and (b) what I saw seemed to be stretched out over several years. Will investigate further, and might also get some more detail from OCLI.

£60 per hour, who told you that?????????

The course adviser (i.e. salesman) of course - who else?!

He also said the going rate for a PIR on a 2-bed house is about £150, for no more than an hour's work. The £150 sounds realistic based on what I've read, but again I think he was being very optimistic on the time taken!

 

[trev]

A PIR in a 3 bed house takes an hour!? Tell him from me he is either an idiot or a cowboy.

 

[Engineer54]

A PIR in a 3 bed house takes an hour!? Tell him from me he is either an idiot or a cowboy.

Far more likely Both Trev...

 

[Engineer54]

After the course you'd probably be technically competent, but when you're house bashing (which it looks like will be your main direction of work) there's only about a third of the work is actual electrics. What they won't tell you on the course is how to route cables from where they are to where the customer wants them, the many different sorts of block and brick you'll find behind the plaster (and how to cope with them), and all the other day-to-day joys that only come from on-the-job experience. Which isn't intended to put you off, quite the opposite - just want you to go into it knowing what's ahead so you don't waste those course fees. Good luck if you do go for it.

PJ

How many 5/7 week wonders do you know that are technically competent?? lol!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I dont know if some of these posts to your thread will have convinced you lynne..but you should pay them considerable thought.......its just impartial advice being offered here.......i mean..... "a PIR in about an hour".....you cant give this credit.......

 

[dingledong]

i think murdock was being optomistic with £20 an hour unless your self employed a firm would not pay that and if you did rewire your property you would need certification if its rented and that would take a year at least

 

[TPES]

I always tell customers that the PIR will take between half, to a full day. Today I got the PIR Finished by 2.00pm

 

[Octopus]

I always tell customers that the PIR will take between half, to a full day. Today I got the PIR Finished by 2.00pm

And then you went home to generate the report??

 

[trev]

i think murdock was being optomistic with £20 an hour unless your self employed a firm would not pay that and if you did rewire your property you would need certification if its rented and that would take a year at least

Dingle she was asking our opinion about doing the knowledge and going self employed, how could rewiring and certification take a year?

 

[dingledong]

if she did a rewire and wanted to sign it off for renting ( as some agencies require this ) i would have thought she would have to show work to qualify to join an oprganisation of some sort

 

[lynneinjapan]

Well, I've looked at my four local colleges, but it's not very promising.

First one charges £890 for Part P and £315 for 17th Edition (cf. £1440 + VAT for these two at RF, so a bit cheaper), and from the course descriptions they seem to expect that anyone starting these courses is already a tradesperson doing some electrical work. I get the impression that the courses are largely theoretical too, in which case I might be as well to do it by distance learning (which I've also considered but I know I NEED the practical side.) I've sent off an enquiry anyway but I doubt if it'll work for me.

Second and third only do 17th Edition, theory only (and one also does 2391). The only other Electrical Installation courses they do are 2330 and 2357.

Fourth one doesn't seem to do anything at all of that ilk.

Dingle, yes, I realise that I'd have to get accredited by one of the trades bodies to be able to sign work off, and I imagine there'd have to be some kind of on-site assessment of my work for that. Would this take long once I'd got the relevant quals?

 

[dingledong]

it would depend on hpw much work you could get to show them . if you get 2 jobs and thats all they more than likely would not visit you , so it could take a year

 

[GLENNSPARK]

look.....the only thing that part p needs is for the applicant to hold the 17th edition....a crap state of affairs in itself really......its up to the o/p as to what route to take.....but i can see disappointment (and an empty purse) on the horizon here.......