Rewire

[rjwbrown]

After a bit of advice/clarification re 18[SUP]th[/SUP] edition of the regulation.
Firstly a bit of background, having a lot of work done on a 70's bungalow for my mother in law, altering the layout, lounge/dinner to a kitchen/dinner with separate lounge, new bath room, new external oil boiler and included a complete rewire.
There have been a few points raised by the electrician of which I found a bit strange.
He wanted to move the meter and I said no as it is fine where it is and I did not want to fall foul of any of the supply company regulations.
I wanted one double pole switch for the oven (Total connected load 3.68KW) and the hob (Total connected load 2.99KW) and he wanted two, both are well within 2 meters of the switch position I had in mind. The reasoning here is glass splash backs and the less holes the better a each hole adds to the cost.

Earth bonding to the water main he wanted the stop cock under the kitchen sink as he said “that’s where they go” and I have opted for a remote (Surestop) one which is plastic and the incoming pipe is plastic, and only picks up copper under the bathroom floor. The reason for picking a remote one is that in the event of a leak an elderly person would have problems with the older brass tap never mind getting to it. Does this earth connection need to be assessable? It is going to be under the floor in an area that is not readily accessible as it will be tiled.
The new main CU is having all RCBOs fitted so I’m thinking that any supplementary bonding is only precautionary rather than a requirement.

Garage supply in armored cable not a problem there and I was going to use a plastic garage CU but he said he would have a problem with the termination but I thought what’s wrong with a metal box along side the CU for the termination of the armored cable.

Any comments welcome good or bad and have I missed anything I need to be aware of.

Rob

 

[onions1066]

I really can't help you with the 18th edition as I don't have doc and Marty McFly with me right now it is 17th still.

 

[onions1066]

Sounds like you should give him a size nine up the rusty bullet hole.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Well quickly...
Incoming plastic services do NOT need bonding
He CANNOT legally move the meter....but this is done a lot
I would go with two isolators but I put them in cupboards, no requirement to put them above the work top

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Oh the garage cu, I would go Metal Clad, I agree with him there

 

[sythai]

After a bit of advice/clarification re 18[SUP]th[/SUP] edition of the regulation.
Think you may mean the 17th

He wanted to move the meter and I said no as it is fine where it is and I did not want to fall foul of any of the supply company regulations.
No he shouldn't be moving that - DNO (supply companies) property

I wanted one double pole switch for the oven (Total connected load 3.68KW) and the hob (Total connected load 2.99KW) and he wanted two
Both can go on one switch thats not a problem

Earth bonding to the water main he wanted the stop cock under the kitchen sink as he said “that’s where they go” and I have opted for a remote (Surestop) one which is plastic and the incoming pipe is plastic, and only picks up copper under the bathroom floor. The reason for picking a remote one is that in the event of a leak an elderly person would have problems with the older brass tap never mind getting to it. Does this earth connection need to be assessable? It is going to be under the floor in an area that is not readily accessible as it will be tiled.
The earth clamp needs to go where it can be easily accessed for inspection, within 600mm of where it enters building or as near as practically possible


The new main CU is having all RCBOs fitted so I’m thinking that any supplementary bonding is only precautionary rather than a requirement.
Not required

Garage supply in armored cable not a problem there and I was going to use a plastic garage CU but he said he would have a problem with the termination but I thought what’s wrong with a metal box along side the CU for the termination of the armored cable.
Nothing wrong with using an adjacent metal box

 

[onions1066]

Or gland into a galv conduit through box if you want to.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

After a bit of advice/clarification re 18[SUP]th[/SUP] edition of the regulation.
Firstly a bit of background, having a lot of work done on a 70's bungalow for my mother in law, altering the layout, lounge/dinner to a kitchen/dinner with separate lounge, new bath room, new external oil boiler and included a complete rewire.
There have been a few points raised by the electrician of which I found a bit strange.
He wanted to move the meter and I said no as it is fine where it is and I did not want to fall foul of any of the supply company regulations.
I wanted one double pole switch for the oven (Total connected load 3.68KW) and the hob (Total connected load 2.99KW) and he wanted two, both are well within 2 meters of the switch position I had in mind. The reasoning here is glass splash backs and the less holes the better a each hole adds to the cost.

Earth bonding to the water main he wanted the stop cock under the kitchen sink as he said “that’s where they go” and I have opted for a remote (Surestop) one which is plastic and the incoming pipe is plastic, and only picks up copper under the bathroom floor. The reason for picking a remote one is that in the event of a leak an elderly person would have problems with the older brass tap never mind getting to it. Does this earth connection need to be assessable? It is going to be under the floor in an area that is not readily accessible as it will be tiled.
The new main CU is having all RCBOs fitted so I’m thinking that any supplementary bonding is only precautionary rather than a requirement.

Garage supply in armored cable not a problem there and I was going to use a plastic garage CU but he said he would have a problem with the termination but I thought what’s wrong with a metal box along side the CU for the termination of the armored cable.

Any comments welcome good or bad and have I missed anything I need to be aware of.

Rob

that plastic garage board....whatch him on that one wont you.....i can smell jointing onto flat twin with a throughbox here for that armoured.....its really bad and i dont like it at all stuff like that......i`v seen it a few times....

 

[Octopus]

After a bit of advice/clarification re 18[SUP]th[/SUP] edition of the regulation.
Firstly a bit of background, having a lot of work done on a 70's bungalow for my mother in law, altering the layout, lounge/dinner to a kitchen/dinner with separate lounge, new bath room, new external oil boiler and included a complete rewire.
There have been a few points raised by the electrician of which I found a bit strange.
He wanted to move the meter and I said no as it is fine where it is and I did not want to fall foul of any of the supply company regulations.
I wanted one double pole switch for the oven (Total connected load 3.68KW) and the hob (Total connected load 2.99KW) and he wanted two, both are well within 2 meters of the switch position I had in mind. The reasoning here is glass splash backs and the less holes the better a each hole adds to the cost.

Earth bonding to the water main he wanted the stop cock under the kitchen sink as he said “that’s where they go” and I have opted for a remote (Surestop) one which is plastic and the incoming pipe is plastic, and only picks up copper under the bathroom floor. The reason for picking a remote one is that in the event of a leak an elderly person would have problems with the older brass tap never mind getting to it. Does this earth connection need to be assessable? It is going to be under the floor in an area that is not readily accessible as it will be tiled.
The new main CU is having all RCBOs fitted so I’m thinking that any supplementary bonding is only precautionary rather than a requirement.

Garage supply in armored cable not a problem there and I was going to use a plastic garage CU but he said he would have a problem with the termination but I thought what’s wrong with a metal box along side the CU for the termination of the armored cable.

Any comments welcome good or bad and have I missed anything I need to be aware of.

Rob

Out of interest who is actually doing this design and work? You or your "electrician"??

 

[Engineer54]

After a bit of advice/clarification re 18[SUP]th[/SUP] edition of the regulation.
Firstly a bit of background, having a lot of work done on a 70's bungalow for my mother in law, altering the layout, lounge/dinner to a kitchen/dinner with separate lounge, new bath room, new external oil boiler and included a complete rewire.

There have been a few points raised by the electrician of which I found a bit strange.
He wanted to move the meter and I said no as it is fine where it is and I did not want to fall foul of any of the supply company regulations.

Not enough information to comment!!

I wanted one double pole switch for the oven (Total connected load 3.68KW) and the hob (Total connected load 2.99KW) and he wanted two, both are well within 2 meters of the switch position I had in mind. The reasoning here is glass splash backs and the less holes the better a each hole adds to the cost.

One cooker control switch is all that is required, connect the two appliances below and behind cabinets via a dual conection plate. Have you made a mistake on the Hob rating, it seems to be very low??

Earth bonding to the water main he wanted the stop cock under the kitchen sink as he said “that’s where they go” and I have opted for a remote (Surestop) one which is plastic and the incoming pipe is plastic, and only picks up copper under the bathroom floor. The reason for picking a remote one is that in the event of a leak an elderly person would have problems with the older brass tap never mind getting to it. Does this earth connection need to be assessable? It is going to be under the floor in an area that is not readily accessible as it will be tiled.

If the pipe entering the building is copper/metal then it WILL need bonding, if plastic, it will obviously not require a bonding connection. All bonding connections to service pipework etc needs to be accessible, and should never be located under the floor!! The boilers pipework may well need bonding, and be confirmed by testing. The incoming Gas pipework WILL need bonding back to the MET

The new main CU is having all RCBOs fitted so I’m thinking that any supplementary bonding is only precautionary rather than a requirement.

There should be no need in your case for supplementary bonding in the bathroom etc

Garage supply in armored cable not a problem there and I was going to use a plastic garage CU but he said he would have a problem with the termination but I thought what’s wrong with a metal box along side the CU for the termination of the armored cable.

Nothing wrong with using a metal adaptable box to terminate a SWA cable before entering a plastic CU. I wouldn't have any trouble myself, terminating directly to the plastic box!! SWA sheath earthing is maintained via an earthing nut or banjo and fly lead.

Any comments welcome good or bad and have I missed anything I need to be aware of.

Rob

Others may have other/further comments...

 

[cdavies33]

Leave your spark alone, sounds like he knows the regs relatively well and he trying do to a better job than required....Hat off to him. For example:

All RCBO's on CU
Glanding straight into a metalclad CU
Wanting the water stop clock under the kitchen sink (much easy for sparks in future when they come to test - first place we look)

What a top bloke!

 

[cdavies33]

Leave your spark alone, sounds like he knows the regs relatively well and he trying do to a better job than required....Hat off to him. For example:

All RCBO's on CU
Glanding straight into a metalclad CU
Wanting the water stop clock under the kitchen sink (much easy for sparks in future when they come to test - first place we look)

What a top bloke!

To add to this..... He's the one who's carried out the 4 year apprenticeship also and I'm sure he has the up to date.... 17th!!! edition regs!

 

[ayjay]

it must be a nightmare for the sparky having you looking over his shoulder all the time

 

[Des 56]

Choose the the most suitable accessory positions from the choice that the installing electrician gives that comply with the regulations

It's best to leave the compliance with the regulations to the electrician,he should be more than aware of what is required and probably is just that



Unless of course,you have doubts about his suitability,but having engaged him for his skill,why doubt his suitability at this late stage

 

[Engineer54]

To add to this..... He's the one who's carried out the 4 year apprenticeship also and I'm sure he has the up to date.... 17th!!! edition regs!

In years gone by maybe!! ...Now day's it is just as likely he is a fast track wanna-be electrician!! lol!!

And that's just the trouble, there is no up front distinction between the fully trained and experienced and the under trained inexperienced guy that turns up on your door step!!

 

[telectrix]

there would be if you got them to fabricate 135 bends in 4" galv. trunking.

 

[stratplus]

If its being rewired wouldn't it be having a new c/u in which case why use all RCBO's? Surely a RCD protected board will be used??

 

[rjwbrown]

Thank you all for your comments, where to start with a reply?

The CU with RCBOs was my idea not his he wanted to fit a split CU with a RCD but you lose 2 ways when you spit the CU and space is a problem OK for 12 way, 16 way just and anything larger would require a change to the meter cupboard.

Bonding the water pipe is a problem area as I can not have the join plastic to metal in the kichen so stop cock under the kitchen sink is out.
Reading the regulations

Where practicable the connection to the gas, water, oil, etc., service should be
within 600 mm of the service meter, or at the point of entry to the building if
the service meter is external and must be on the consumer's side before any
branch pipework and after any insulating section in the service.

There must be some lattitude here other wise why say "practicable" and "should" does not mean has to be or am I reading this incorrectly.
I could understand there being issues if compession joints or screw threaded joints are used on metal pipe work as this could introduce a path of higher resistance but soldered copper pipe work should not present such issues as it should be a good path with very little electrical resistance. That does assume they joints are soldered correctly but if they were not they would leak.

It may be possible to have the bond in the bathroom as the basin is on a cabinet and all the taps are mains fed incuding the hot water. Will need to look at distance from join to cabinet but it will not be anywhere close to the plastic stop cock just close to where it goes from plastic to metal.

May be I should have done all the water pipes incuding the heating in plastic then the problem would not arise

Will be using metal CU's as that is not a problem or going to cost an arm and a leg and should make a tidier job.

As for leaving the electrician alone to make decisions on what goes where, not a chance as I know where the sockets, switches need to go, that does assume the positions meet the current regulations or there is another reason for them to be postioned else where.

I have good understanding of electrics although not quailfied as such and had I been younger would have done the work myself and just had it signed off at the end.

BTW: I am not looking over his shoulder as the job is 160miles away so can only get on site about once a week and just because someone is quailified does not mean they can not make a mistake, we all do but try our best not to.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

how big is this house?

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Why are you bonding an incoming plastic service ??????