Suggestions ?

[markc123]

Caravan Park.

An unfamilar park too me, never been here before, 1 off job (i hope).

Ze reading on TNS of 16ohm. Contacted DNO, and they've been out - without me knowing i must add, they rang me to confirm that nothing is wrong from they're point of view and it must be a problem in house for the caravan park it's self. The DNO supplies a feed to a substation, which then feed's 8 substations across the park which in turn feed 60 or so caravans. Now the DNO are telling me, that the high Ze reading must be a fault on the cable going from the main substation to a little substation and/or the little substation to the caravan pitch - which is nothing to do with them.

I have contacted the park manager, and he doesn't seem at all bothered / doesn't understand.

The problem is, i've been called in to do an EICR for the client but am getting stupid readings at the pitch - i can hear you all crying TT the pitch, well the pitch belongs to the park (not the client - she just owns the static) and the park are refusing to pay for the additional works... I don't really know what to suggest, DNO have washed there hands, Manager isn't interested and the poor client through know fault of her own can't get a satisfactory condition report done on her property. The client also doesn't want to pay for the additonal works, and i tend to agree with her when she says 'why should i have to pay'

And now i have some how become a middle man between client and manager of a park i've never visited before. Making me wish i'd originally said sorry i'm too busy this week.

If it's a fault to the section of the caravan park, i have no idea who is passing these off as electrically safe because it'd be impossible. So i tend to think it's just a problem with this 1 pitch.

Is 'walk away' the only real option? Feel slightly responsible and i don't know why.

 

[Octopus]

I'd be writing to the client, then walk away.

 

[plugsandsparks]

From what I can deduce, DNO have measured at point A, their Ze and it was OK, you measured at point B being a Zdb of some type. Is it practical to go back to their point A and confirm what their reading is and see if the difference in ELI between B and A is caused by a missing earth connection somewhere ?

 

[Des 56]

You are piggy in the middle by the sounds of it



I suppose she has to provide her own means of earthing unless its in the contract she has with the site owner,in which case he can pay
Perhaps tell her you can either go ahead with the report,but that will come up short and will be a waste of time and money or that the site owner pays, but most probably she has to act

I understand your dilemma but above is the only action that you need, or as you say walk away

 

[markc123]

From what I can deduce, DNO have measured at point A, their Ze and it was OK, you measured at point B being a Zdb of some type. Is it practical to go back to their point A and confirm what their reading is and see if the difference in ELI between B and A is caused by a missing earth connection somewhere ?

If you take everything into account it's more like zdb-db-db lol. Main Substation - Area Substation - Caravan Pitch - CU inside Static.

Yeah, that's what i was wanting - hence my annoyance that they didn't inform me when they were, and now when i've asked they've just quoted the 0.8ohm standard DNO quote :/

Considering theres 67 caravans off the Area Substation and some new from what i can tell, the fault must be from the Area Substation to the Caravan Pitch im at - because otherwise none of the caravans would get a certificate (suppose it could be a chancer 'electrician') But, I have noticed advertising signs have been driven into the ground between this pitch and the substation aswell - probably the route cause. But without permission im not allowed to tackle it.

Think Murdoch's situation sounds the only option - however, i feel slightly harsh on the client.

 

[Tiny Spark]

Just out of intrest have you taken a reading from the Pitch supply?

 

[markc123]

Just out of intrest have you taken a reading from the Pitch supply?

Yeah that's where i got the 16ohm from.

 

[Tiny Spark]

Ahh fair enough.
Well in that case then I think Murdochs idea is the only way to proceed.
If the owner does not want to know there is nothing you can do, But if I was the client I would be kicking up holy hell with the site owner and either be demanding another pitch or them to repair it.

 

[markc123]

Ahh fair enough.
Well in that case then I think Murdochs idea is the only way to proceed.
If the owner does not want to know there is nothing you can do, But if I was the client I would be kicking up holy hell with the site owner and either be demanding another pitch or them to repair it.

That's sort of what happening - but through me :| Hense the middle man comment - shes playing holy hell through me towards him, maybe i should change my number and move abroad lol.

I'll write a letter to the park and to the owner then hopefully they'll come to an agreement between themselves.

 

[Tiny Spark]

I doubt the park owner will give a ---- what you say.
But if she threatens to leave and write some bad reviews costing him money then he may reconsider.

Ive found people who dont give a ---- about these things usually only care about money.

 

[Octopus]

I doubt the park owner will give a ---- what you say.
But if she threatens to leave and right sad bad reviews costing him money then he may reconsider.

Ive found people who dont give a ---- about these things usually only care about money.

Some parks have a "central" meter and then charge each pitch for usage, i.e. each pitch does not have an account with the DNO. If this is the case the site owner has a duty of care towards the people "he" supplies IMHO

 

[Tiny Spark]

Some parks have a "central" meter and then charge each pitch for usage, i.e. each pitch does not have an account with the DNO. If this is the case the site owner has a duty of care towards the people "he" supplies IMHO

Agreed.

 

[markc123]

Some parks have a "central" meter and then charge each pitch for usage, i.e. each pitch does not have an account with the DNO. If this is the case the site owner has a duty of care towards the people "he" supplies IMHO

This is the case unfortunatley, and why i tend to agree with the client when she says 'why should i pay'

It's like been back at school and 2 mates falling out and having to pick up the pieces.

Why doesn't commonsense prevail from the managers point of view, happy customers and all that
Why do they keep pestering me when i've given the best advice to both parties
Why did i turn up in the first place
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY

pass me a beer.

lol

 

[Tiny Spark]

*hands over Pint*

Dont sob in your beer, It will water it down....

 

[plugsandsparks]

Maybe you could offer to fix it for a free holiday with all the trimmings )

 

[markc123]

Maybe you could offer to fix it for a free holiday with all the trimmings )

If it was a chain then yes lol. However, even though this park is pretty big it's privatley run by someone local.

Don't think my missus would be too happy....

"Oi she devil we're off on holiday"
-"Ooooh, you fine specimen, where?"
"2Miles down road..."

lol.

 

[Earthstore]

Caravan Park.

An unfamilar park too me, never been here before, 1 off job (i hope).

Ze reading on TNS of 16ohm. Contacted DNO, and they've been out - without me knowing i must add, they rang me to confirm that nothing is wrong from they're point of view and it must be a problem in house for the caravan park it's self. The DNO supplies a feed to a substation, which then feed's 8 substations across the park which in turn feed 60 or so caravans. Now the DNO are telling me, that the high Ze reading must be a fault on the cable going from the main substation to a little substation and/or the little substation to the caravan pitch - which is nothing to do with them.

I have contacted the park manager, and he doesn't seem at all bothered / doesn't understand.

The problem is, i've been called in to do an EICR for the client but am getting stupid readings at the pitch - i can hear you all crying TT the pitch, well the pitch belongs to the park (not the client - she just owns the static) and the park are refusing to pay for the additional works... I don't really know what to suggest, DNO have washed there hands, Manager isn't interested and the poor client through know fault of her own can't get a satisfactory condition report done on her property. The client also doesn't want to pay for the additonal works, and i tend to agree with her when she says 'why should i have to pay'

And now i have some how become a middle man between client and manager of a park i've never visited before. Making me wish i'd originally said sorry i'm too busy this week.

If it's a fault to the section of the caravan park, i have no idea who is passing these off as electrically safe because it'd be impossible. So i tend to think it's just a problem with this 1 pitch.

Is 'walk away' the only real option? Feel slightly responsible and i don't know why.

Why not just carry out the EICR which is why you are there, of course it will fail, leave a quote for remedial work and just let her thrash it out with the owners, as somebody has already pointed out if the owner is charging for a safe supply then he has a duty of care therefore not your argument.

 

[markc123]

Why not just carry out the EICR which is why you are there, of course it will fail, leave a quote for remedial work and just let her thrash it out with the owners, as somebody has already pointed out if the owner is charging for a safe supply then he has a duty of care therefore not your argument.

Now that would of been the commonsense thing to do on my part from the start - DOH.

However, after the palava of today theres noway she's going to let undertake the EICR because she know's fine well it'll fail.

 

[Earthstore]

Now that would of been the commonsense thing to do on my part from the start - DOH.

However, after the palava of today theres noway she's going to let undertake the EICR because she know's fine well it'll fail.

At least she would be armed with a legal piece of paper so she could argue with the site owner, rather than my electrician said....

Then she could make it clear to the owner that if she or anybody else on the site gets injured or killed then the site would be culpable as the supply is faulty.

 

[Guest111]

Have you checked another pitch on the same row? If you tried a couple and got the same fault then maybe a call to the HSE for their "advice", given that they can charge 120 per hour now I,d imagine they,d only be too happy to pop round,

 

[polo1]

Issue a Danger notice????:lipsrsealed2:

 

[markc123]

Or i could pass the condition report as satisfactory, with a 10minute inspection + put a pat sticker on the CU with the recommended next test date on that....

....like every other fker seems to be doing these days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mini-rant, over.

 

[Engineer54]

If the park owner is not interested in it's caravan parks supplied electrical installations safety, then it's up to your customer to contact the local council responsible for issuing its trading license!! Once they get their teeth in, things will generally move rather quickly!! ...lol!!

 

[markc123]

UPDATE.

Had a call off the client today - the manager has had 'his electrician' in and issued her a satisfactory condition report. The client has told me that she doesn't think the problem was cured (no major work done). The client is filing the certificate with the letter that i sent too her about the danger and why i didn't procede with the tests.

Tried to get her to read stuff off the cert too me, from what i can tell the reading's written on the cert are adequate one's ... if she was reading the correct stuff off, wasn't the easiest thing to try and do over the phone and because im sort of wanting to wash my hands with it i won't be going up there.

The question she asked me though was....

Even though she has a satisfactory certificate, if something was too happen (touch wood it doesn't) would she still be to blame because she's had a letter off another electrician (me) that contradicts the cert - even though the cert is 'satisfactory'

Can see a situation where if something was to happen, the spark will just say 'it was alright when i tested it' sort of thing - must of happened later yada yada yada.

I may be being unfair to the spark, for all i know it could have been sorted and correctly issued - im just not convinced after meeting the manager briefly, he seemed a real fly-boy.

 

[markc123]

I have taken on board all your points about contacting HSE and going above the manager's head.

However, im not involved with the park in anyway shape or form, it was just a one-off situation i got called too. I don't want to get involved either.

Having sent a letter to the client and the park it's self is enough from my point of view? What happens afterwards is up to them....is that correct?

 

[markc123]

Just noticed that last post has started a new page...

My update on the situation is found at the bottom of page 2.

Cheers.