Switch fed or feed to the light

[magnoliafan89]

Hi guys

Just for fun.
Just wanted to find out a general opinion what is your preffered method of wiring a lighting circuit, looping in and out at the lights or switch fed?
Just curious as whilst at college we were only ever shown feed to the lights but in my job we only ever switch feed so wondered what peoples preferences were?

 

[Midwest]

Depends on the luminaires and the installation. Loop in & out at a ceiling rose is cheaper, uses less cable. Loop in & out at switch, is easier if installing down lights for example, and also provides a neutral at the switch for 'smart controls'.

 

[SparkyChick]

Depends on the luminaires and the installation. Loop in & out at a ceiling rose is cheaper, uses less cable. Loop in & out at switch, is easier if installing down lights for example, and also provides a neutral at the switch for 'smart controls'.

Loop In/Out at switch also reduces the chances of getting a badly done ceiling rose chocblock arrangement since the lights just have the one cable. Makes it easier for people to change their own light fittings.

 

[Octopus]

At switch. There are too many noddy light fittings these days that can't accept loop in and out.

Also makes it easier to fault find when the RCD starts tripping

 

[Davethesparks]

As above "noddy" light fittings cause problems, Conduit wiring can be done at the switch or light fitting again depending on fitting, T&E wiring also same

 

[Phil Thompson]

Loop in and out at lights is standard here. As is using singles, single with earth and twin brown for switching.

 

[Des 56]

Both have their uses and both are used
I suppose the loop at switches is more suitable for connection at the lights

It is also sometimes handy to use a 3 core for the switch cable to the light for extending on in some cases

 

[mhar]

I tend to switch feed downstairs but may loop in / out of a ceiling rose if there is an attic.

It is also sometimes handy to use a 3 core for the switch cable to the light for extending on in some cases

Ammendment 1, 18th edition - don't go giving them ideas

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Whatever suits each circumstance. Often a mixture of both on one circuit.

 

[buzzlightyear]

new build from the switch less chance of numskull customers f**king up a light fitting .
old houses looped at the light customer provide me with new light fittings.
old jb if I can not get access to other part of the property .

 

[Karin]

on a ladder above my head screwing around working up to 5 cables into a piece of crap connection box / PIR arrangement or leaning against the wall infront of a nice deep backbox at handheight? well if i've got a choice..

also agree (where practical) it's nice to leave neutrals and permanent lives at as many points as possible (Des' 3-core suggestion).

 

[Leesparkykent]

New builds I feed the switches, rewires I generally 3 plate as 9 out of ten times I pull down the old conduits for the switch drops...I know for some reason a few very old school sparks frown upon feeding switches but for the life of me I can't see why. I once had a disagreement on here with a very well respected engineer who used to frequent the forum. He was adamant feeding the switches was a cowboy way of doing things...I said you try getting 3 or four cables in to some of these IKEA fittings or a wall light . Both methods have their uses.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

If a full rewire with good access or new installation then at the switch works well and i have found it quicker and less frustrating than trying to move little screws with your head arced backwards staring upwards... just make sure you got a good backbox for the switch method. If it is an existing installation then depending on the task at hand its often easier to use the existing method than change things. If i have a really awkward ceiling rose with little space i have in the past moved the wires into a junction box in the ceiling and done away with the current ceiling rose then dropped 1mm or 1.5mm down to the new light as some of these on trend lights have next to no cable space in them.
Did this just last week. plenty of slack on existing wires so up in loft i pulled them back up, out come the wagos and mf wago box. then dropped a single 1.5mm down to the fancy artistic light the customer had bought. no way was more than one cable fitting into the back of it.

 

[Des 56]

I once had a disagreement on here with a very well respected engineer who used to frequent the forum. He was adamant feeding the switches was a cowboy way of doing things

I always respected his opinion, even when it may have differed from my own
I sometimes wonder what ever became of that very knowledgeable member

 

[ferg]

Either or both. Whatever suits me at the time.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I always respected his opinion, even when it may have differed from my own
I sometimes wonder what ever became of that very knowledgeable member

same here mate...

 

[Octopus]

I always respected his opinion, even when it may have differed from my own
I sometimes wonder what ever became of that very knowledgeable member

He's on another forum - if you are referring to the one i'm thinking of.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I think some peoples opposition to the N at a switch harks back to the days of round pattern switches on wooden blocks when clearly there was nowhere to terminate a spare wire. The belief that neutrals at switches are poor practice has simply been handed down over generations without any thought for changes in practice and accessories.
The fact is that any of the arguments against neutrals at switches can also be applied to permanent lives at lights. Which is why common sense has prevailed in the end!

 

[Midwest]

I see you lot have no issues with neutrals at light switches, but don't like them turning up at job interviews

 

[Loki]

Ive seen some that use both ie t&e to rose 3 core from rose to switch then t&e back to next rose then repeat. Gets a neautral at both then

 

[Dave OCD]

I'll use both though mainly loop through the switches, sometimes on rewires though for the ground floor lighting I'll go with the old everything back to a big JB method.

 

[telectrix]

I'll use both though mainly loop through the switches, sometimes on rewires though for the ground floor lighting I'll go with the old everything back to a big JB method.

big JB???? don't you mean a large JB ( Jim Beam)?

 

[Dave OCD]

Junction box.

 

[telectrix]

junction box, buried under 2 ft. of itchy-poo and nobody except you knows where it is? YUK.

 

[Dave OCD]

No GROUND floor lighting, so under a floorboard 'hatch' [MF of course] or in a cupboard on the 1st floor.

 

[telectrix]

is that over or under the 4" of kingspan between floors, and will it be affected by the heat from the underfloor bedroom wet heating system?

 

[stummish]

I tend to do either, depends on the circuit routes. I prefer loop at the switch, easier to terminate, harder for the general public to zap themselves on imo.

I also tend to use 3 core for switch wires, n or p live at either point for gadgets, or an extra s live for modifications/variations.

@Dave OCD I also have been known to do the big ol' jb method, but only if there's a cupboard or similar to put it. I like my jbs like I like my women... not covered in insulation and hidden under floorboards. Pretty specific I suppose...

 

[telectrix]

like I like my women... not covered in insulation and hidden under floorboards.

does that mean I've got to move the ex-wife from under the floor?

 

[stummish]

does that mean I've got to move the ex-wife from under the floor?

Some assembly required

 

[Dave OCD]

is that over or under the 4" of kingspan between floors, and will it be affected by the heat from the underfloor bedroom wet heating system?

Now I'm talking about rewiring Tel, nothing under the floor apart from soot and cobwebs, usually older Victorian houses. So stop being awkward.

 

[ashg285]

I prefer to feed at the switches, although i must say the area I work in when on repairs or renewing fittings the majority are fed at the lights. Like someone has mentioned when fitting tenants fancy light fittings all them wires can be a bit awkward at times

 

[JK-Electrical]

I often find that Sod's Law applies here.

For instance, when I'm installing additional smoke alarms in modern properties that have sheeted flooring and plasterboard walls throughout, neither of which the property owner wants damaged in any way, it is very rare to find that a loop-in system has been installed via ceiling lighting points. The obvious advantage with the ceiling loop-in method, is, of course, that the wiring for the alarm can be taken direct from the ceiling lighting point and fed through the ceiling void without any ceiling damage being incurred. But when the feeds are located at switch points, it is more often than not next to impossible to install wiring between the switch and the alarm without having to open up the adjacent wall and the ceiling, in which case the alarms would need to be installed on the wall rather than the ceiling.

Conversely, when the job is a light fitting changeover in older properties, I often find that a ceiling loop-in system is present. As other posters have pointed-out, it can be fiddly working at a height with a fancy light fitting and three pairs of 1.5 T&E. In this particular instance there is a distinct disadvantage and you end-up wishing that the feeds were at the switch rather than the light.

Both approaches or a combination thereof have advantages and disadvantages. In the end, it all comes down to what type of job you're doing and whether or not the law of Sod comes into play!

 

[telectrix]

what i prefer doing with a fancy light fitting that is terrible to get 3 x T/E in is to fit a JB above the ceiling to handle the loop in/out (accessible from the light) and a single cable ( S/L, N & E) into the fitting.

 

[JK-Electrical]

what i prefer doing with a fancy light fitting that is terrible to get 3 x T/E in is to fit a JB above the ceiling to handle the loop in/out (accessible from the light) and a single cable ( S/L, N & E) into the fitting.

That's what I prefer to do too. Saves time and hassle.

 

[Davethesparks]

Been on some very old installations where a central JB was done with ceiling light T&E and switch T&E from each room was terminated into the one JB. earth conductor (when installed) was twisted under the JB with no sleeve on them. Oh the "good old days"

 

[Rpa07]

what i prefer doing with a fancy light fitting that is terrible to get 3 x T/E in is to fit a JB above the ceiling to handle the loop in/out (accessible from the light) and a single cable ( S/L, N & E) into the fitting.

I’ve had two recently that have been fed down the centre of a joist so that the pendant could be screwed to the joist with strength - Thanks, previous installer, but that hasn’t helped me one bit with the modern IKEA light fitting that has no room for terminations besides the joist integrity being compromised with a 25 mm hole.

 

[Deleted member 93172]

it depends on how much chasing is involved, so on that basis I will use the loop in method at the lights or switches, or if its quicker I will use the old spider method, so there is only one cable at the lights and switches except in the case of 2ways always making the RB4 junction boxes accessible.