Take a close look where the tails are routed!

[Fuzebox]

Had a call out to a tripping issue yesterday.
I found that the very old RCD was faulty, but upon inspection something didn't look right regarding the routing of tails.

 

[Fuzebox]

I realise it's a bit hard to see given the pictures.
Basically, the ELCB has been used to switch both permanent live straight from the meter and switched live from the network operated radio teleswitch for economy 7 tariff or similar, the neutral isn't even connected to it.
Needless to say it was faulty, but did still trip at x5... I guess that's why it was still powering his house?

 

[Rockingit]

That's quite some mashup there.

 

[westward10]

That is a Crabtree BS842 voltage operated earth leakage circuit breaker and your normal RCD tester will not cause it to trip.

 

[brianmoooore]

As above. This trips when a current actually flows in the earth wire rather than comparing neutral and live currents. It would do it's intended job connected as shown, albeit without giving double pole disconnection.

 

[Rockingit]

Aren't the old RTS's being retired soon? Heard a rumour that the signal is due to stop being broadcast.

 

[brianmoooore]

Aren't the old RTS's being retired soon? Heard a rumour that the signal is due to stop being broadcast.

Was supposed to be last year, now scheduled for sometime this year.
Currently ignoring messages from Eon, who want to use the event to fit a smart meter.
Makes no difference to me if the radio switch stops working, since I'm on a tariff where day and off peak are charged at exactly the same rate.

 

[snowhead]

Currently ignoring messages from Eon, who want to use the event to fit a smart meter.
Makes no difference to me if the radio switch stops working, since I'm on a tariff where day and off peak are charged at exactly the same rate.

Exactly same as me, but Shell (now Octipus) instead of EON.

RTS was going off in 2023,
Then this March, 2024.
Now it's March 2025.

If they keep delaying it, I'll be dead by the time it's off and will miss non event in mine and Brian's case.

Maybe because there are still between 20 and 30 million "Smart" meters still to be fitted.

 

[pc1966]

Needless to say it was faulty, but did still trip at x5... I guess that's why it was still powering his house?

As @westward10 pointed out your usual RCD test would not reliably test-trip a VOELCB but if it dumps enough current in to the CPC system to get raise that to the required potential above the Earth rod then it will trip.

Is the system TT at it appears from the picture of the cut-out? Typically that was the use-case for them but not a very good or reliable system compared to RCD style protection.

Probably best to have RCBO boards, but they could be replaced by 2 * 100mA delay RCDs if those boards and the old time-switch are being kept. You could use a 4P to do the same job the same way, but it is a bit of a mess, with red tail cable used for one of the neutrals as well!

 

[Fuzebox]

That is a Crabtree BS842 voltage operated earth leakage circuit breaker and your normal RCD tester will not cause it to trip.

Ahh thanks. Never actually come across these before so had to google it, which said it was an ELCB but I never read into the technicalities.

 

[Fuzebox]

As @westward10 pointed out your usual RCD test would not reliably test-trip a VOELCB but if it dumps enough current in to the CPC system to get raise that to the required potential above the Earth rod then it will trip.

Is the system TT at it appears from the picture of the cut-out? Typically that was the use-case for them but not a very good or reliable system compared to RCD style protection.

Probably best to have RCBO boards, but they could be replaced by 2 * 100mA delay RCDs if those boards and the old time-switch are being kept. You could use a 4P to do the same job the same way, but it is a bit of a mess, with red tail cable used for one of the neutrals as well!

Okay gotcha.
Yes it's a TT system, but a good reading, was around 6.5ohms iirc, though it's a very old installation as you can see, so the rod has well and truly bedded in.
There isn't an option to carry out any further work at present as the chap is elderly, and dare I say, lives in squalor. It was a very grim visit and felt the need to run home to shower afterwards.
Nice chap though, just very old school and set in his ways I think.
I replaced the ELCB with an RCD, then actually found further issues including a faulty kitchen ring circuit.
The whole house was an accident waiting to happen.
He'd had a water leak from the bathroom pipes, soaked the downstairs ceiling causing the lights on the ground floor to fail, and the previous electrician just left it to dry out but still powered up and not working...
That was 2 years ago, lights still don't work, I suspect a break somewhere.
I digress, I really hope to never get a call back there.

 

[westward10]

If it is TT the earths appear to be in the same terminal if so this is incorrect. The electrode should go into E and the installation earth into the other one, probably F.

 

[Fuzebox]

If it is TT the earths appear to be in the same terminal if so this is incorrect. The electrode should go into E and the installation earth into the other one, probably F.

That is how it was originally.

 

[brianmoooore]

If it is TT the earths appear to be in the same terminal if so this is incorrect. The electrode should go into E and the installation earth into the other one, probably F.

Seem to remember that the two terminals are very close together.

 

[westward10]

Seem to remember that the two terminals are very close together.

They are so could be an illusion.

 

[westward10]

I wonder if anyone has been fined the £5 for breaking those seals.

 

[Fuzebox]

I wonder if anyone has been fined the £5 for breaking those seals.

I'll gladly pay

 

[Fuzebox]

They are so could be an illusion.

They were twisted together in the same terminal