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em1

hi all was just wondering if you were to get a call out early hours int he morning say it was a dodgy light fitting tripping the rcd, if you then changed that fitting (in a bedroom) would you then be required to do a full test on that circuit? and what if the main bonding wasnt up to scratch would i just note that on a MWC,

also another situiation if you found a dodgy socket and changed that and the circuit wasnt rcd prtected what would you then have to do if you didnt have an rcd or rcbo to fit?

would you just leave that circuit isolated until you could get it protected or is it ok to leave it unprotected until an appointment was made say the next evening?

just thinking of doing part time self employed call outs alongside my current job and doing a bit research as to what would be expected of me

cheers
 
If replacing a socket like for like then as far as I am aware there would be no need to fit rcd, that only applies if you were altering the circuit.
 
Like for like replacements do not require a cert unless its the replacement of a breaker or rcd

so would you not provide MWC or test the circuit afterwards?

i was told in that case you were the last person to work to that circuit and would have a hard time proving it wasnt faulty at the time of you working on it if somthing was to happen
 
so would you not provide MWC or test the circuit afterwards?

i was told in that case you were the last person to work to that circuit and would have a hard time proving it wasnt faulty at the time of you working on it if somthing was to happen

Under GN3 then maybe you're 'supposed' to issue a MWC with everything you do - however this never happens. When its like for like i never issue a cert, just go in get the job done get cash in hand and then get ureself home for a brew.

Just make sure you never fit a metal light fitting if there isn't an earth at the lighting point - in a case like this, the like for like would be a plastic fitting regardless if the one coming down is metal or not.

Your last point...'you were the last person into do the work' ...you haven't issued a cert, so good luck on the customer proving you were ever there in the first place - unless of course you produced an invoice. Just make sure like for like is cash in hand ;) jobs a good'n.
 
Listen matey, I am NOT going to be issueing MWC's for like for like replacements when NOTHING is done to irradicate the cowboys in this country!

GN3 or not its a waste of time and paper

and like for like can be done by any tom, dick or harry - will they issue a MWC?
 
so say if its like for like do i not need to worry about anything else about the instalation or do any testing or produce a MWC?

i mean i would normally check everything out to make sure sockets arent spured off spurs and making sure lights are earthed etc, but if its 4 in the morning i wouldnt fancy taking bulbs out or appliances for Ir tests and testing rings thoroughly etc
 
so say if its like for like do i not need to worry about anything else about the instalation or do any testing or produce a MWC?

i mean i would normally check everything out to make sure sockets arent spured off spurs and making sure lights are earthed etc, but if its 4 in the morning i wouldnt fancy taking bulbs out or appliances for Ir tests and testing rings thoroughly etc

If you went to replace a light fitting you'd start checking everything else whilst you were there? Just get in change the light and get out, 10mins work and charge an hour ;)

Issue a MWC if you really want, its up to you - everyone else including myself wouldn't - just wasting your time to be honest.

And another little point, if a client rang me up at 4am to replace a light they could wait untill 8am - F going out at that time when its not an emergency.
 
If you went to replace a light fitting you'd start checking everything else whilst you were there? Just get in change the light and get out, 10mins work and charge an hour ;)

Issue a MWC if you really want, its up to you - everyone else including myself wouldn't - just wasting your time to be honest.

And another little point, if a client rang me up at 4am to replace a light they could wait untill 8am - F going out at that time when its not an emergency.

but what if youd replaced a socket and that socket ended up being spurred off a spur or the ring or if it was a radial on a 32A for example? or would it not matter becasue your only changing a fitting? just tryin to get to grips with what im required to do , and the 4am thing was an example and like i said im planning on doing emergencies only alongside my current job so wouldnt mind being called out in the night for some extra cash, it could be a pentioner who needs lights or power sorted and i couldnt wait til the morning coz id be at work
 
We we're talking about like for like replacements...now we're getting abit deep. If that scenario was the case, then obviouslly you'd inform the customer - and no doubt they wouldn't like what you were about to tell them / quote them, and you'd be walking straight back out the door without doing anything. Wasted journeys do unfortunatley happen.
 
We we're talking about like for like replacements...now we're getting abit deep. If that scenario was the case, then obviouslly you'd inform the customer - and no doubt they wouldn't like what you were about to tell them / quote them, and you'd be walking straight back out the door without doing anything. Wasted journeys do unfortunatley happen.

your saying in that case you would inform the customer, how would you of known if youd never bothered to check wether the circuit was ok and just changed the fitting, all im worried about is that if i did just change a fitting and leave i could of just been the last person to work on a circuit that could potentially be dangerous therefore would be part responsible , wouldnt i ?

nd murdoch im not your matey and im only asking questions for advice not to be talked down to and in no way am i asking everyone to produce MWC for changing fittings im just curious as to what everyone else does to so keep your hair on .

what about if you changed a socket in a kitchen so it was notifiable, would you then test the full ring and check earthing and so on as you would have to confirm that on minor works ?

im not after arguments hear im just asking people with alot more experience on the subject than me, im trying to find answers im not insisting people arent doing their job properly
 
your saying in that case you would inform the customer, how would you of known if youd never bothered to check wether the circuit was ok and just changed the fitting, all im worried about is that if i did just change a fitting and leave i could of just been the last person to work on a circuit that could potentially be dangerous therefore would be part responsible , wouldnt i ?

nd murdoch im not your matey and im only asking questions for advice not to be talked down to and in no way am i asking everyone to produce MWC for changing fittings im just curious as to what everyone else does to so keep your hair on .

what about if you changed a socket in a kitchen so it was notifiable, would you then test the full ring and check earthing and so on as you would have to confirm that on minor works ?

im not after arguments hear im just asking people with alot more experience on the subject than me, im trying to find answers im not insisting people arent doing their job properly

Replacing a socket in the kitchen is not notifiable
 
I'm with Murdoch on this one. Like for like, no MEIWC, just a Zs.

If you decide to issue a MEIWC, given that IR testing is required, you might find yourself needing to start pulling out built-in appliances, hunting for hidden loads etc.
Can turn a quick job into a nightmare fast.
 
The one thing that you are going to do is a Zs test to prove what you've done works. At stupid o clock your client doesn't want you there a second longer than you have to be so you get in get it done and get out, if you want to do a full spectrum of tests you make an appointment for a better time then your butt is covered every which way.

Which bit of South Shields (god's own country) are you from mate?
 
The one thing that you are going to do is a Zs test to prove what you've done works. At stupid o clock your client doesn't want you there a second longer than you have to be so you get in get it done and get out, if you want to do a full spectrum of tests you make an appointment for a better time then your butt is covered every which way.

Which bit of South Shields (god's own country) are you from mate?

Whiteleas mate, and you ?
 
If you're relying on call-outs to supplement your income then you are in for a nasty surprise. Very few people will get you out in the night, and those that do will usually rely on someone they already know or have been recommended.
What are you planning to do if you get to a fault and it turns out that notifiable work is needed to sort it? Are you part P registered, or will you simply tell them you can't do the job and to get someone else?
Finally, no offence, but you seem very unsure of what is required in a domestic situation regarding notification/certification/testing. I'm sure that you are very well qualified in the electrical field you are in, but trust me, it's a different ballgame dipping your toes in domestic work...I found that out the hard way when I moved from being an industrial electrical engineer. Very few installs are compliant and no 2 properties will be the same. Believe me, working in an environment where things are done properly is a breeze compared to what's out there in peoples' homes...
If you are serious then get yourself a copy of the regs (if you don't already have one), the on-site guide, electricians guide to the building regs, plus GN3 & GN8.
As a side note, like for like is all fine and dandy unless manufacturers instructions specify something different such as fan replacements. Most of these now need 3 amp protection regardless of whether there is one there already.
 
I think the basis of this is understanding what is notifiable/minor works or none, changing a socket (not moving it) or light pendant is 'none' so long as the one your taking out is not dangerously positioned? If I swap out a CU I test all the circuits, but can't be liable for badly buried cables (diagonal) but on cert I specify the full extent of what I have done, same as invoice, be explicit in the description, -isolate circuit/swap/socket/energise/test- Job done
 
If you're relying on call-outs to supplement your income then you are in for a nasty surprise. Very few people will get you out in the night, and those that do will usually rely on someone they already know or have been recommended.
What are you planning to do if you get to a fault and it turns out that notifiable work is needed to sort it? Are you part P registered, or will you simply tell them you can't do the job and to get someone else?
Finally, no offence, but you seem very unsure of what is required in a domestic situation regarding notification/certification/testing. I'm sure that you are very well qualified in the electrical field you are in, but trust me, it's a different ballgame dipping your toes in domestic work...I found that out the hard way when I moved from being an industrial electrical engineer. Very few installs are compliant and no 2 properties will be the same. Believe me, working in an environment where things are done properly is a breeze compared to what's out there in peoples' homes...
If you are serious then get yourself a copy of the regs (if you don't already have one), the on-site guide, electricians guide to the building regs, plus GN3 & GN8.
As a side note, like for like is all fine and dandy unless manufacturers instructions specify something different such as fan replacements. Most of these now need 3 amp protection regardless of whether there is one there already.

I understand I might not get much work but at least I would have everything in place for any that does come my way, I served my time with the local council 3 years ago so been working in homes for 7 year now but mainly empty homes. I'm fully aware of what is and isn't notifiable but to be honest I'm sure you all know the reputation councils get and il be the first to admit its not up to scratch in the electrical department, people just know enough to get them bye, not many real good sparks who know their stuff work there.

As I was saying though when I'm at work in an empty home it's easy for me to quickly check everything out like rcd protection and making sure earthlings upto scratch and do full tests, I basically don't leave the property with any limitations or departures on sheets and complete everything that needs doing before the next tenant goes in, so that's why I'm askin everyone wether that's still required or impractical to do tht on a call out because I'm not
Too aware of limitations or departures coz everthings normally brought up to date


And no I don't think the AA would do that mate try ringing and asking
 
I wouldn't be relying on call outs to domestic properties for steady income. RCD trips at 0230 who would know until they woke up. And is it an emergency? As for mwc and notifiable work, I think we're looking a into this to much.
 
I understand I might not get much work but at least I would have everything in place for any that does come my way, I served my time with the local council 3 years ago so been working in homes for 7 year now but mainly empty homes. I'm fully aware of what is and isn't notifiable but to be honest I'm sure you all know the reputation councils get and il be the first to admit its not up to scratch in the electrical department, people just know enough to get them bye, not many real good sparks who know their stuff work there.

As I was saying though when I'm at work in an empty home it's easy for me to quickly check everything out like rcd protection and making sure earthlings upto scratch and do full tests, I basically don't leave the property with any limitations or departures on sheets and complete everything that needs doing before the next tenant goes in, so that's why I'm askin everyone wether that's still required or impractical to do tht on a call out because I'm not
Too aware of limitations or departures coz everthings normally brought up to date


And no I don't think the AA would do that mate try ringing and asking

That's probably what Aliens wonder before invading Earth....
 
My point really was that in the last year I have been busy every week. Number of night-time call-outs...zero.
People either don't want to bother you at night, or they assume that the cost will be gigantic so they wait until morning, even with all power gone.
 
so say if its like for like do i not need to worry about anything else about the instalation or do any testing or produce a MWC?

i mean i would normally check everything out to make sure sockets arent spured off spurs and making sure lights are earthed etc, but if its 4 in the morning i wouldnt fancy taking bulbs out or appliances for Ir tests and testing rings thoroughly etc

lamps young man lamps bulbs go in the ground gardners use them
 
This is a case of what we should do and what we would do.. Ive had this before call out at 2am "No electric" problem was main 100a incomer.. Simple job.. Straight swap.. Now a quick ZE to ensure a main earth then hay presto.. I would not issue a cert in this case..

I mean if there was anything that was apparently dangerous then that would be a different matter but if everything was done soley and truly by the regs then what would we get done??
 
Well to be honest I've done callouts for my current employer now for over 2 years and average around 3 a night when I'm on nd I've made a killing from it at around 24 quid a call so gave me the idea of doing them myself and ill admit I've Never issued a cert on any calls but now looking Ito it I know I should of on occasions woking in special locations , also to clear I'm not trying to make a living off this it's just an idea for a bit extra cash if any calls come my way , no harm in that is there ?

And sorry yes I know lamps! School boy error ha and love the alien comment
 
Last edited by a moderator:
But I agree alot of the calls i do could wait till the morning it's just because there's no charge for council tenants so they get us out willy nilly so I know there won't be as many but sure there would be a few got nothing to loose
 
Well that's what I'm sayin I've done ok getting tht much so would rather do some of my own instead

- - - Updated - - -

Longest ive ever been at a call is 30 mins
 
But I agree alot of the calls i do could wait till the morning it's just because there's no charge for council tenants so they get us out willy nilly so I know there won't be as many but sure there would be a few got nothing to loose

No experience of council tenants so I stand corrected there. I'm speaking purely from the private sector here in sleepy Norfolk. Large elderly population who don't want to "bother" us poor electricians at night. :)
As for price, you should be looking at £50 really for a call-out, whatever the time.
Obviously you won't be called out to your usual crowd as a privateer, so how do you intend letting people know that you are in the market? Also, if you advertise and issue certificates of any kind, will you be letting HMRC know that you have additional income?
Incidentally, do you, or do you plan to have public liability insurance? At present you have employees cover, but as soon as you step foot on someones property in a professional capacity, you open yourself up to the world of litigation. Just a thought....
 
But I agree alot of the calls i do could wait till the morning it's just because there's no charge for council tenants so they get us out willy nilly so I know there won't be as many but sure there would be a few got nothing to loose

So are the local tax payers footing the bill then? I can't imagine that your company doit for nothing.
 
why does anyone need a socket changing at 4 am ?
why cant you do any necessary testing at a later date ?
is the tax payer paying for this crap ?
i'd sack this off and go self employed for emergency call out work , then you can charge more like £60 an hour for work that doesnt involve dealing with junkies in sheltered accommodation :-D
 
heating specialist. def. a plumber that can use a blowlamp. (or is it a blowbulb?)
 

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