What qualifications are required to work on domestic buildings?

[allthequestions]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to first start off with a little about myself, I am 19, live in Scotland, 3.5 Years through my apprenticeship as an electrical technician in the oil and gas industry. I currently have my HNC in electrical engineering and am about to complete my SVQ level 3 in electrical engineering.

I have always worked in the industry and never done any domestic work. I did a little bit on inspection and testing and the regulations while at college but nothing too detailed. I work with both 3 phase and single phase systems here. Also do plenty of work on other industrial stuff such as protection relays, high voltage equipment, generators, motors etc. I was wondering what courses/tests/qualifiactions would be required for me to work on domestic properties at the end of my apprenticeship in a few months? Feel free to tell me how you got into the industry and what qualifications etc you had when you started as all information would be helpful.

 

[tazz]

Must be hard to decide what to do......quick domestic course or full career...???

 

[HandySparks]

A total waste of training too!! That apprenticeship could have gone to a young lad that was keen to get on in life, and made full use of those higher qualifications to benefit both the employer that gave him the opportunities and himself alike....

How can you complain about under-qualified installers working on domestic, and then argue against someone with the 'proper' training and qualifications going into domestic. It doesn't stack up.

Either you think that everyone working on electrics should be a fully qualified electrician or you don't.

 

[Bobster]

Using full qualified electricians for domestic wiring I agree with.

Using qualified engineers to wire domestic I don't agree with, not really using there skill base.

 

[baldsparkies]

If your working for a decent company, and your covering mainly commercial work, you have the better deal.
You are more likely to receive proper training, and decent qualifications.
If your covering domestic only, then your level of training is far less versatile, and the most important thing won't be qualifications but how to prevent back, knee, and joint injuries over the years.
If you have your own company, or self employed.
Then as a fully qualified time served electrician, you have the best of both worlds.
You can cover commercial work with confidence, and also domestic if the jobs right for you.
The main difference, is what you will see in the domestic sector.
Cus it ain't good.
Part P Electrical Trainee and the like has done nothing to improve standards IMHO.
That's why I rate a JIB gold card holder above all other criteria.
Granted not fool proof, but better than part P registered installer, NICEIC domestic installer, Nappit, or anything else.

 

[Pete999]

What a waste of an apprenticeship.

I agree Tony all that training, and he wants to do house bashing

 

[Engineer54]

How can you complain about under-qualified installers working on domestic, and then argue against someone with the 'proper' training and qualifications going into domestic. It doesn't stack up.

Either you think that everyone working on electrics should be a fully qualified electrician or you don't.

If you read my posts here again, it most certainly does stack up as you put it!!

I think there is a bit of a major difference between being a fully trained installation electrician (eg C&G's/NVQ 3) and a HNC trained Technician/Junior Engineer, don't you??

C&G qualifications are and always have been classified as ''Tradesman'' qualifications, whereas the ONC/HNC - OND/HND are professional route biased qualifications overseen, administered and issued by a completely different authority.

 

[baldsparkies]

If you read my posts here again, it most certainly does stack up as you put it!!

I think there is a bit of a major difference between being a fully trained installation electrician (eg C&G's/NVQ 3) and a HNC trained Technician/Junior Engineer, don't you??

C&G qualifications are and always have been classified as ''Tradesman'' qualifications, whereas the ONC/HNC - OND/HND are professional route biased qualifications overseen, administered and issued by a completely different authority.

Totally agree.

As I remember (long time back)
When serving my apprenticeship, we attended day release and the City and Guilds 236.
The first 2 years were certified as 1st year part 1 2nd year part 2, and that was under the UEI banner, Union of electrical institutes.
I remember half a dozen lads being pulled out at this stage because they worked for a company covering domestic installations only.
The rest of us were commercial sparks and carried on for a further year which covered the C&G B certificate in electrical installation work. So 3 years to date.
A hand full of us decided to cover the C certificate, but we did this on our own backs, at evening classes, twice a week.
We were told by the college that this was a technical grade.
I remember as a young lad, that my mates were earning a small fortune with all the available overtime.
That was one reason why once I had the C cert, I decided to call it a day.
Other than the 2391 and those silly 16th edition and 17th edition courses, its as far as I have needed to go.
I do remember when getting the JIB approved gold card, that I was able to get the Site managers card because of the C cert.
Jib even wrote to me saying my gold card should be updated from approved to technician, but something I never did.
I do remember those lads pulling out after the second year though, and thinking of housebashers as not needing the level of qualifications a commercial sparks needs.
With all this in mind ONC/HNC and OND/HND would be like asking a commercial airline pilot to drive a Tesco HGV.
Terrible waist of qualifications.

 

[ian.settle1]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to first start off with a little about myself, I am 19, live in Scotland, 3.5 Years through my apprenticeship as an electrical technician in the oil and gas industry. I currently have my HNC in electrical engineering and am about to complete my SVQ level 3 in electrical engineering.

I have always worked in the industry and never done any domestic work. I did a little bit on inspection and testing and the regulations while at college but nothing too detailed. I work with both 3 phase and single phase systems here. Also do plenty of work on other industrial stuff such as protection relays, high voltage equipment, generators, motors etc. I was wondering what tests would be required for me to work on domestic properties at the end of my apprenticeship in a few months? Feel free to tell me how you got into the industry and what qualifications etc you had when you started as all information would be helpful.

Book an appointment with your doctor to arrange for tests in hospital before they perform a Lobotomy operation

 

[baldsparkies]

Talking of airline pilots vs HGV drivers.
Reverse the situation, and this is what you get :icon12:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PoJgW8y6_k

 

[Razzmond]

I'm no expert but I can tell you what others told me. I work as a Sparks mate for a firm that does Minimal domestic. Bit of industrial and alot of agricultural (Which I suppose is effectively industrial. SWA Metal conduit etc etc) but the industrial side is where everyone I know has advised me to go. We subbed to a company that does controls for boiler houses plant rooms and the like. Not only did I find that much more interesting but the more experienced lot reckon its the way to go.

 

[7029 dave]

Right, I am putting me head on the block, there are domestics Electricians and monkeys, there is/was an skill to it, my rewires you would not even know I had been there, just new accessories would be the clue. Pull down most conduits/cavities, but then again that was then.

 

[Dcf]

The oil game us looking shaky at the moment with a lot of pay offs looming
i can't blame the lad for looking for a fork in the road should it come down to it.
as was highlighted earlier there is a hell of a lot more houses than factories
my advice for him if he wants to get a bit of experience in domestic work get someone that he knows to show him the ropes
cos it's been proven with the short course installer pish that you just can't pick it up by yourself.

knowing your house types and structures is the key to getting routes down to the board etc.
in a neat and quick fashion of course.
no one is gonna pay you in the domestic market for running Galv conduit around the living room and leaving holes to drive the 46 bus through ,cos you can't find a route now are they?
wtf happened to being an all rounder anyway?

 

[Knobhead]

How can you complain about under-qualified installers working on domestic, and then argue against someone with the 'proper' training and qualifications going into domestic. It doesn't stack up.

Either you think that everyone working on electrics should be a fully qualified electrician or you don't.

Read Matthew 25:14-30

 

[Engineer54]

The oil game us looking shaky at the moment

Don't believe a word of that rubbish, the oil and gas companies are the biggest profit making companies out there and will be for many years to come.

 

[Guest125]

Don't believe a word of that rubbish, the oil and gas companies are the biggest profit making companies out there and will be for many years to come.

Saying this I heard only this morning that Apple now earn more profit than a lot of oil companies. Pretty impressive.

 

[andyelectric]

Using full qualified electricians for domestic wiring I agree with.

Using qualified engineers to wire domestic I don't agree with, not really using there skill base.

According to many this lad is in no way, shape or form an engineer as he is not registered.

 

[shanky887614]

Saying this I heard only this morning that Apple now earn more profit than a lot of oil companies. Pretty impressive.

not really, the iphone costs them say $200+ to make and they sell for $750-950

now thats profit, they use cheap chinese labour usually through foxconn.

apple products all have massive markups, they can do it because they control the apple market

 

[Guest125]

not really, the iphone costs them say $200+ to make and they sell for $750-950

now thats profit, they use cheap chinese labour usually through foxconn.

apple products all have massive markups, they can do it because they control the apple market

.......

 

[shanky887614]

And a barrel of oil costs about $30 to produce and although now it is at $70 it was unto $150 for some time.

yea but apple buys most of the parts from itself so it pays less tax.

starbucks etc got in trouble for this in the uk because it was either just break even or losing money

 

[Guest125]

yea but apple buys most of the parts from itself so it pays less tax.

.......

 

[shanky887614]

I have always struggled with the tax avoidance bashing. When did it become fashionable to pay tax. I pay accountants to help me avoid paying unnecessary tax. Maybe I should open a wholesaler and sell the materials to myself for a larger markup.. Good business.

that wouldnt work though, the big multinationals do it by buying the materials from themselfs from overseas in countries with lower tax

 

[Guest125]

that wouldnt work though, the big multinationals do it by buying the materials from themselfs from overseas in countries with lower tax

.........

 

[shanky887614]

Yes it would because if you were trading within a high tax bracket then you could up the price of the materials to move profit from one company to the other thus limiting your total tax liabilities.

yes but if you owned both based in the same country there is a good chance the tax man will knock on your door.

 

[Engineer54]

According to many this lad is in no way, shape or form an engineer as he is not registered.

Not at the moment maybe, he is after all only 19+, but he is well on his way to becoming eligible to apply for his incorporation into Engineering council approved Institute!! No chance of him ever achieving that status, going down the house bashing route!! lol!!

Depending on the support of his present company in the way of further education and movement within the company's structure (eg design office experience etc) he could well become Chartered well before he is 30!!

 

[Engineer54]

yes but if you owned both based in the same country there is a good chance the tax man will knock on your door.

Twice in fact!! ...lol!!

 

[tazz]

Can we keep the tread on the topic of education, domestic/commercial installation please

 

[Dcf]

Not at the moment maybe, he is after all only 19+, but he is well on his way to becoming eligible to apply for his incorporation into Engineering council approved Institute!! No chance of him ever achieving that status, going down the house bashing route!! lol!!

Depending on the support of his present company in the way of further education and movement within the company's structure (eg design office experience etc) he could well become Chartered well before he is 30!!

all this might be true
but none of this helps the laddie if he fears he is getting pumped does it.
the oil game is in a period of downturn all of which happens in most industries tbf.
there is loads of projects getting scrapped all the time at the moment due to companies trying to save a bob or ten.
i would not disagree that oil companies make big money
but i would imagine that they are extremely hungry animals to feed also.
the problem this lad has got is that the northeast of scotland will go flat for a while with a lot of people looking for jobs at the same time.
he will be coming out his time and facing the chop.
if he thinks a bit of domestic work might tide him over well more power to his elbow.
he just needs a bit of schooling in the black art of "house bashing"
if he gets a job doing outside lights and or fans politely decline cos its not called the granite city for nothing.
i talk from past experience there .

 

[Engineer54]

It would be nice of ''Allthequestions'' came back and gave a little more information on himself/company, and why he is looking at the domestic sector!!

But my experience of the oil & gas companies is that they don't tin tack the apprentices that they have spent a great deal of time and money training to their way of doing things, they are seen as an investment. It's a completely different ball game to the electrical installation contracting firms that often see apprentices as a means of cheap labour.

Also from what i'm understanding, the oil & gas companies are only talking about culling those on the administrative side of the business not the front end working/production side of things...

 

[andyelectric]

It would be nice of ''Allthequestions'' came back and gave a little more information on himself/company, and why he is looking at the domestic sector!!

But my experience of the oil & gas companies is that they don't tin tack the apprentices that they have spent a great deal of time and money training to their way of doing things, they are seen as an investment. It's a completely different ball game to the electrical installation contracting firms that often see apprentices as a means of cheap labour.

Also from what i'm understanding, the oil & gas companies are only talking about culling those on the administrative side of the business not the front end working/production side of things...

According to my brother who is in oil as a mechanical engineer(no idea if he is registered) , it is contractors getting the boot at the moment and 'staff' for the bigger companies are being retained. The great relief to himself was a move 6 months ago away from his own company to an employed position.

 

[maddfridge]

or indeed pat testing argh!