electric range cooker installation

[anna anna]

Hi there
i have a qestion about an electric range cooker installation and requirements. It looks like there are numerous possibilities??? which doesn't sound right, i have my family leaving with me and i cannot afford to take my chances.
Ok, So I have a flavel from currys (mln10crs) , electric cooker 13.5 kw to be installed.

which cable do i need? the lengh from the cooker to the fuse board is 9m , the cable would go in the wall and under the floor. how many amps do we need? what would be the size of the breaker?
Sofar I've been given 3 possibilities: 1. leave the 6 mm cable, 2. change to 1 mm, 3. change to 16mm.
I've done my math so possibly 59 amps in needed and 16 mm? Please help.

thanks

 

[Pete999]

Hi there
i have a qestion about an electric range cooker installation and requirements. It looks like there are numerous possibilities??? which doesn't sound right, i have my family leaving with me and i cannot afford to take my chances.
Ok, So I have a flavel from currys (mln10crs) , electric cooker 13.5 kw to be installed.

which cable do i need? the lengh from the cooker to the fuse board is 9m , the cable would go in the wall and under the floor. how many amps do we need? what would be the size of the breaker?
Sofar I've been given 3 possibilities: 1. leave the 6 mm cable, 2. change to 1 mm, 3. change to 16mm.
I've done my math so possibly 59 amps in needed and 16 mm? Please help.

thanks

You are intending to get this work done by a competent Electrician aren't you?
The Electrician will discuss cable routing/sizing when he or she comes to survey the installation.

 

[Ian1981]

6mm maybe adequate for cookers upto 15kw as diversity can be applied to cooker circuits
First 10amps of the load + 30% of the remainder + 5 amps if there's a socket outlet incorporated in the cooker control unit.

Not sure were you got 1mm from tho or did you mean 10mm?

 

[telectrix]

generally 6.0mm cable on a 32A breaker will suffice. the reason for this is that oven elements switch on/off frequently ( by their thermostats ) and the actual average current is a lot less than the kW rating would suggest. if the cooker is on a 6mm cable and a 32A breaker, the worst that can happen is tripping of the breaker. if that happens, you could then consider uprating cable and breaker, using this diversity, i'd estimate your current @ 25A ( assuming no socket outlet on cooker isolator.

 

[Leesparkykent]

It's a case of RTFM

 

[telectrix]

40A fuse? a bit pessimistic aren't they.

 

[Leesparkykent]

http://downloads.beko.co.uk/bekoupload/manuals/MLN10CRS.pdf

 

[Leesparkykent]

40A fuse? a bit pessimistic aren't they.

like you said probably fine on a 32A breaker.

 

[Ian1981]

manufacturers covering their own backside perhaps by stating 40 amp fuse.
Guess they've never heard of mcbs?

 

[anna anna]

6mm maybe adequate for cookers upto 15kw as diversity can be applied to cooker circuits
First 10amps of the load + 30% of the remainder + 5 amps if there's a socket outlet incorporated in the cooker control unit.

Not sure were you got 1mm from tho or did you mean 10mm?

hi there, ys I.ve meant 10mm

 

[anna anna]

hi there , so 6mm might be ok, but 10mm would be even better?? I would need to know my kitchen is in a full refurb stage so adding, removing or changing one more wire would be just fine.

 

[anna anna]

You are intending to get this work done by a competent Electrician aren't you?
The Electrician will discuss cable routing/sizing when he or she comes to survey the installation.

I had three electritians and they had three different idea: 1. 6mm ok, 2. need to be change to 10mm 3. need to be changed to 16mm . hence my question

 

[telectrix]

if you are in the process of a major refurb., then now is the time to up the cable to 10mm if your electrician advises so. but as long as the 6mm cable is not derated by being in insulation, it's good for 47A, so my choice would be to get it tested to prove it's integrity, and if test proves OK, then leave it in, along with the 32A MCB, which could be uprated to a 40A if required.

 

[anna anna]

like you said probably fine on a 32A breaker.

Probably ?? I would rather have "surely"

 

[anna anna]

if you are in the process of a major refurb., then now is the time to up the cable to 10mm if your electrician advises so. but as long as the 6mm cable is not derated by being in insulation, it's good for 47A, so my choice would be to get it tested to prove it's integrity, and if test proves OK, then leave it in, along with the 32A MCB, which could be uprated to a 40A if required.

sorry to be a pain. how is it possibly that 6 mm would be ok? the old cooker is much smaller, etc. So overall you are saying that 10 mm would be better? and one more question, please, are you an electrician? my apologies, if it seems rude though

 

[davesparks]

Probably ?? I would rather have "surely"

You can't get a sure and certain answer on this over the Internet, no electrician will give a definitive answer without actually seeing the installation first hand.

 

[telectrix]

6mm cable , if installed in a void, clipped, and/or buried in plaster ( as opposed to being run in insulation) is good for 47A, and can be protected by up to a 40A MCB. bear in mind that your range cooker will never pull more than 30A due to diversity. this has been a rule of thumb for 60 years. and, in answer to your other question, i am a qualified electrical engineer with 40 + years experience.

 

[davesparks]

hi there , so 6mm might be ok, but 10mm would be even better?? .

if 6mm is ok then 10mm will also be ok, it won't be better, it'll just be a marginally more expensive version of ok.
If 6mm is ok then any cable of that size or greater will do the job, although if you go too big then you'll have trouble terminating it.

 

[Wilko]

Hi Anna, to work out if 10mm might be required it would be good to know the detail of the cable run - its length and its installation method. In the right conditions the 6mm will be ok, but that's what your Electrician can best assess on site. I can't imagine needing 16mm

 

[anna anna]

although if you go too big then you'll have trouble terminating it. - sorry to ask, what do you mean by that?

 

[anna anna]

Hi Anna, to work out if 10mm might be required it would be good to know the detail of the cable run - its length and its installation method. In the right conditions the 6mm will be ok, but that's what your Electrician can best assess on site. I can't imagine needing 16mm

ok, so it is 10 m lengh from the consumer unit plus an extra 1.5 m from the oven to the socket (in order to be able to move the cooker). the cable will be running under the floor and partially in the wall. So up from the socket (in a wall) then uder the floor boards and then to the consumer unit. thanks

 

[Ian1981]

6mm is fine.
Tho it makes no difference to anyone on here as it's your electricians decision as he's installing the circuit and certifying it.

 

[anna anna]

6mm cable , if installed in a void, clipped, and/or buried in plaster ( as opposed to being run in insulation) is good for 47A, and can be protected by up to a 40A MCB. bear in mind that your range cooker will never pull more than 30A due to diversity. this has been a rule of thumb for 60 years. and, in answer to your other question, i am a qualified electrical engineer with 40 + years experience.

thank you so so much. ok, just a crazy question, please, if I would turn on all at once: 2 ovens, 5 ceramic rings, grill and plate warmer (eg. during Xmas), wouldn't it make installation crush?? i had already some problems with an elecric shower and it was just 10 kw:-(

 

[Ian1981]

thank you so so much. ok, just a crazy question, please, if I would turn on all at once: 2 ovens, 5 ceramic rings, grill and plate warmer (eg. during Xmas), wouldn't it make installation crush?? i had already some problems with an elecric shower and it was just 10 kw:-(

You need to appreciate that a electric shower has a built in thermostat allowing no diversity to be applied to the circuit and is nothing really like an electric induction oven which incorporates heating elements which when reach temperature switch themselves off
No your electrics won't crush?
Whatever that means

 

[Wilko]

What happened with the shower, can I ask ?

 

[Ian1981]

What happened with the shower, can I ask ?

It was wired in 1.5mm

 

[anna anna]

What happened with the shower, can I ask ?

it stopped working and i was told that electrics melted becouse the wire was not appropriate. i am definitely not an expert :-0

 

[anna anna]

You need to appreciate that a electric shower has a built in thermostat allowing no diversity to be applied to the circuit and is nothing really like an electric induction oven which incorporates heating elements which when reach temperature switch themselves off
No your electrics won't crush?
Whatever that means

thank you

 

[anna anna]

just one more thing, please, but this time is not the cooker
it is about the lights. my kitchen diner has some downlights in the kitchen part and just one ceiling rose in the diner part, I am adding as well 2 x under cabinet lights. so those 3 types of lights ideally would be linked with one tripple switch. but, I would like to have them dimmable, is this possible?

 

[Cadgey123]

although if you go too big then you'll have trouble terminating it. - sorry to ask, what do you mean by that?

What had caused you to ask all these questions? I know you have conflict of answers but you aren't an electrician so as long as it is installed, signed off and gives no problems what does it matter?

 

[Cadgey123]

just one more thing, please, but this time is not the cooker
it is about the lights. my kitchen diner has some downlights in the kitchen part and just one ceiling rose in the diner part, I am adding as well 2 x under cabinet lights. so those 3 types of lights ideally would be linked with one tripple switch. but, I would like to have them dimmable, is this possible?

You can dim them as long as you have dimmable lights

 

[robd]

The answer to the question that started this thread is written in the on site guide which a decent electrician should be aware of. I get this question regularly "oh the company came to fit the cooker and they said we need a bigger cable"...give me strength

 

[Octopus]

If you are refurbishing your kitchen, best you find a 4th spark, via local recommendation and work with them.

 

[anna anna]

What had caused you to ask all these questions? I know you have conflict of answers but you aren't an electrician so as long as it is installed, signed off and gives no problems what does it matter?

hmmm, y

You can dim them as long as you have dimmable lights

thank you

 

[anna anna]

If you are refurbishing your kitchen, best you find a 4th spark, via local recommendation and work with them.

ok, it makes sense, thanks

 

[davesparks]

although if you go too big then you'll have trouble terminating it. - sorry to ask, what do you mean by that?

The bigger the cable, the harder it is to work with, especially in the rather cramped conditions of a standard backbox for a cooker switch.
Plus I don't think 16mm would fit in the terminals of some brands of cooker switch.

 

[davesparks]

thank you so so much. ok, just a crazy question, please, if I would turn on all at once: 2 ovens, 5 ceramic rings, grill and plate warmer (eg. during Xmas), wouldn't it make installation crush?? i had already some problems with an elecric shower and it was just 10 kw:-(

That's a pretty odd kind of dinner you are cooking where you turn all elements on at the same instant.
The last time I cooked a Christmas dinner the oven was a long time before the hob.

But anyway, the elements will very quickly settle down as the thermostats start to kick in, this is kind of the point of cooker diversity calculations.

What problems did you have with the 10kW shower? That is different to a cooker as it presents a single 10kW load whereas a cooker is made up of separate loads.