Difficult gaining experience.....

[Notyetaspark]

Hello everyone,

Could really do with some advice on the best way to go about continuing my learning to become an electrician.

Currently working with a local spark for the last 4 months but he can only give me 2/3 days per week if that. When I'm with him I feel I'm definitely learning but I'm 34 years of age with a family to support and 2/3 days a week wage just isn't sustainable for much longer.
Before this I worked as a mate on more commercial sites for about a year but didn't even get to look at a wire or anything to do with electrics really apart from a ---- load of plastic conduiting.
Is this how it is when trying to gain experience working commercial?
Seems like everyone gets assigned their role and that's all they will really do for the most part. No real learning gained from it to be honest.

Got my level 2 and 17th edition and want to work towards my gold card eventually but just don't feel I'm going to get the opportunity working as a mate on commercial sites.

How did some of you who were adult learners with no time to waste get there and if you had to do it again or if you was in my situation what route would you take?

Appreciate any feedback

 

[westward10]

Why do you feel installing conduit is not learning, myself and many contributors to this forum have spent days installing containment on commercial sites as it very often the bulk part of the install. Learn to walk before you can run.

 

[Notyetaspark]

Why do you feel installing conduit is not learning, myself and many contributors to this forum have spent days installing containment on commercial sites as it very often the bulk part of the install. Learn to walk before you can run.

Who said I was installing conduit?
And even if I was installing conduit if that's all I did for 12 months it would be pretty slow learning towards become a spark do you not think?

Thanks for you feedback though

 

[westward10]

Who said I was installing conduit?
And even if I was installing conduit if that's all I did for 12 months it would be pretty slow learning towards become a spark do you not think?

Thanks for you feedback though

"apart from a ****load of plastic conduiting" I believe you stated.
Slow learning used to be the best way to learn but these days everyone wants to reap what they haven't sown.

 

[Notyetaspark]

"apart from a ****load of plastic conduiting" I believe you stated.
Slow learning used to be the best way to learn but these days everyone wants to reap what they haven't sown.

You might of been happy with lugging conduit for 12months when you was learning but I thought there would be more to it than that. But maybe that's the way it is and that's why I'm asking on here to confirm that.
As for reap what they haven't sown, I left a 500£ a week job moving about conduit to work for 150£ a week to learn and try and better myself so hardly that mate.

 

[buzzlightyear]

but didn't even get to look at a wire or anything to do with electrics really apart from a **** load of plastic conduit[/QUOTE ]

 

[Notyetaspark]

Oh yeah, I can see where it sais installing.

 

[buzzlightyear]

you chose the job ,not us . we have all been their doing the c**p jobs.

 

[Dannyg8810]

You might of been happy with lugging conduit for 12months when you was learning but I thought there would be more to it than that. But maybe that's the way it is and that's why I'm asking on here to confirm that.
As for reap what they haven't sown, I left a 500£ a week job moving about conduit to work for 150£ a week to learn and try and better myself so hardly that mate.

No one is going to let a trainee loose until they can do the basics it just takes time mate

 

[westward10]

So you didn't install conduit you lugged it about for twelve months.

 

[Notyetaspark]

No one is going to let a trainee loose until they can do the basics it just takes time mate

Totally agree mate, was just trying to get a feel for how things work on a big site and whether that is the best place to try to learn.

 

[LankyWill]

You might of been happy with lugging conduit for 12months when you was learning but I thought there would be more to it than that. But maybe that's the way it is and that's why I'm asking on here to confirm that.
As for reap what they haven't sown, I left a 500£ a week job moving about conduit to work for 150£ a week to learn and try and better myself so hardly that mate.

When i was house bashing as an apprentice all i did was box up and chase walls for 12months, as well as being the loft rat. Just got to suck it up and do your time, try completing your level 3 and get improver status.

As for the 'poor me' on the money situation, its was your choice at the age of 34 to take up a new job that involves a lot of hard graft and baby steps. No one forced you to leave your job to become a spark and start at the bottom again.

 

[Notyetaspark]

When i was house bashing as an apprentice all i did was box up and chase walls for 12months, as well as being the loft rat. Just got to suck it up and do your time, try completing your level 3 and get improver status.

As for the 'poor me' on the money situation, its was your choice at the age of 34 to take up a new job that involves a lot of hard graft and baby steps. No one forced you to leave your job to become a spark and start at the bottom again.

 

[Notyetaspark]

Definitely going to work towards my level 3

I never complained once about the money mate, Was just stating that I'm willing to start from the beginning but if after a year in site nothing is still leant then it gets frustrating

 

[buzzlightyear]

you could be on the street shovelling sh*t!

 

[westward10]

What type of work did you do on this twelve month commercial site.

 

[LankyWill]

Definitely going to work towards my level 3

I never complained once about the money mate, Was just stating that I'm willing to start from the beginning but if after a year in site nothing is still leant then it gets frustrating

Stick on the forum and read some of the threads, their full of useful information. I have learnt loads from reading others posts and picked up a few useful tips. I must admit containment is very boring but necessary, try an industrial setting as they are more hands on.

 

[Notyetaspark]

Stick on the forum and read some of the threads, their full of useful information. I have learnt loads from reading others posts and picked up a few useful tips. I must admit containment is very boring but necessary, try an industrial setting as they are more hands on.

Cheers man, appreciate the feedback

 

[polo1]

Sadly, many of the larger companies use apprentices and adult trainees as gofers, and don't commit to actually ensuring that you get a range of experience/training. I don't agree with others that 12 months of just installing containment is acceptable for an apprentice/adult trainee. If however, you are working as an electrician's mate, then the work is what the work is.....containment, drawing in cables or whatever.
The trade is in a shambolic state wrt ensuring that people completing their training have well rounded skills & experience.

 

[Notyetaspark]

Sadly, many of the larger companies use apprentices and adult trainees as gofers, and don't commit to actually ensuring that you get a range of experience/training. I don't agree with others that 12 months of just installing containment is acceptable for an apprentice/adult trainee. If however, you are working as an electrician's mate, then the work is what the work is.....containment, drawing in cables or whatever.
The trade is in a shambolic state wrt ensuring that people completing their training have well rounded skills & experience.

Thank you mate. This was my feelings on the situation as well but seems like that's just how it is at the moment.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thank you mate. This was my feelings on the situation as well but seems like that's just how it is at the moment.

 

[Notyetaspark]

View attachment 37361

Someone wants attention

 

[Des 56]

It does appear that you have tried the recommended means of getting practical experience,you have forfeited a good wage as well to pursue your chosen career

It seems unfortunate that what you experienced was to become little more than a adult gofer
Personally,I think you have invested enough in your pursuit to warrant a better return than you have currently had
There are many,myself included, who bemoan the current trend of people getting qualification and practising the trade with the minimum of hands on experience,in your case it appears the experience you gained was far less than could have been hoped for
Have you thought about using agencies to fill the gap ? or perhaps even creating your own work doing smaller domestic jobs
Try getting in with a small scale industrial installation contractor,it will possibly be varied experience and a rising profile in that type of employment

 

[Notyetaspark]

It does appear that you have tried the recommended means of getting practical experience,you have forfeited a good wage as well to pursue your chosen career

It seems unfortunate that what you experienced was to become little more than a adult gofer
Personally,I think you have invested enough in your pursuit to warrant a better return than you have currently had
There are many,myself included, who bemoan the current trend of people getting qualification and practising the trade with the minimum of hands on experience,in your case it appears the experience you gained was far less than could have been hoped for
Have you thought about using agencies to fill the gap ? or perhaps even creating your own work doing smaller domestic jobs
Try getting in with a small scale industrial installation contractor,it will possibly be varied experience and a rising profile in that type of employment

Agencies are definitely a good shout to fill the voids. Will keep trying to find work with the smaller firms as well because after seeing some of the feedback on here it seems becoming a runner instead of learning is quite the norm on a lot of sites.

 

[uksrevivor]

Have a quiet word with your employer / mentor tell him what your future goals are and ask him if he would consider teaching you more, the problem lies on industrial/ commercial installs when you have to be watched over or you are watching a qualified spark install 3 phase boards and equipment its not cost effective for the employer if you get what i mean. Everyone has to start somewhere though so maybe try an approach of when i get this cable tray / conduit installed can i oversee you working on the circuit boards. It may just work and might make your employer/ mentor realise you want to progress. Its a long road to being trusted on the job but worth it in the end. Fair play to you for retraining and dropping money to do so keep at it if you can its worth it in the end buddy.

 

[Notyetaspark]

Have a quiet word with your employer / mentor tell him what your future goals are and ask him if he would consider teaching you more, the problem lies on industrial/ commercial installs when you have to be watched over or you are watching a qualified spark install 3 phase boards and equipment its not cost effective for the employer if you get what i mean. Everyone has to start somewhere though so maybe try an approach of when i get this cable tray / conduit installed can i oversee you working on the circuit boards. It may just work and might make your employer/ mentor realise you want to progress. Its a long road to being trusted on the job but worth it in the end. Fair play to you for retraining and dropping money to do so keep at it if you can its worth it in the end buddy.

Good advice mate.
Thanks.

 

[uksrevivor]

It worked for me m8 im 45 and retrained as well it really is worth it in the end i can assure you.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Someone wants attention

no ,just making a statement for people bleating like a sheep.

 

[Notyetaspark]

It worked for me m8 im 45 and retrained as well it really is worth it in the end i can assure you.

Did you start as a mate and stay with one employer or bounce around job to job?
And was this all on commercial as well?

 

[Notyetaspark]

no ,just making a statement for people bleating like a sheep.View attachment 37362

Boring as ---- now mate.

 

[davesparks]

'Electricians mate' as a job description is just a labourer with a few extra brain cells, it's not necessarily a training position unless you are lucky or it is specifically agreed with the employer.

Don't take on a job as a 'mate' expecting to be treated like an apprentice or trainee, it's a labouring position so expect to be treated as such.

 

[davesparks]

'Electricians mate' as a job description is just a labourer with a few extra brain cells, it's not necessarily a training position unless you are lucky or it is specifically agreed with the employer.

Don't take on a job as a 'mate' expecting to be treated like an apprentice or trainee, it's a labouring position so expect to be tried as such.

 

[Notyetaspark]

'Electricians mate' as a job description is just a labourer with a few extra brain cells, it's not necessarily a training position unless you are lucky or it is specifically agreed with the employer.

Don't take on a job as a 'mate' expecting to be treated like an apprentice or trainee, it's a labouring position so expect to be treated as such.

Rarely if ever,do I see jobs advertised as trainee though.
I thought being a 'mate' was the way to go.

 

[davesparks]

Rarely if ever,do I see jobs advertised as trainee though.
I thought being a 'mate' was the way to go.

That's proabaly because the normal route in to the job is as an apprentice, and it is cheaper to train an apprentice than an adult trainee.

You might be lucky and receive training as a mate, but it is not automatically a part of the job.

 

[casperLennon]

Have you tried asking if you can do more? When I started at level two I didn't know anything, different kettle of fish on site. But watch others and ask to help. If it's for agencies it's totally up to you to push yourself. Do you have any friends who are sparks?

 

[buzzlightyear]

op, thought about sending you cv to company's or look on this forum.
loads of jobs down in smokes. (London ).

 

[Notyetaspark]

Have you tried asking if you can do more? When I started at level two I didn't know anything, different kettle of fish on site. But watch others and ask to help. If it's for agencies it's totally up to you to push yourself. Do you have any friends who are sparks?

Got a few friends that I've put the word out to that all mainly work domestic.
If I go down the agency route then maybe I will eventually land a job with a firm that can see I'm keen to learn and might let me learn a bit more as I work? Any chance of that you reckon?

 

[Notyetaspark]

op, thought about sending you cv to company's or look on this forum.
loads of jobs down in smokes. (London ).

Your right mate, there is bundles of work, especially for electricians and mates and was actually going to start jumping back on the sites as a mate.
That's why I just wanted to get people's feedback on whether that is the best road to go down due to having a bit of a shitty experience the first time round.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Got a few friends that I've put the word out to that all mainly work domestic

to do domestic work,
have you got liability for the work. weather you have 17th edition .

 

[casperLennon]

I've mostly always worked for agencies. Been on the books three times and didn't really like it. Get a decent agency and they'll keep you going. I've been offered jobs with the company's I've subbed to so just keep going. Be the very best at conduit, earn trust and you'll move up. It's a snowball effect when it gets going.

 

[Notyetaspark]

to do domestic work,
have you got liability for the work. weather you have 17th edition .

If you mean have I got public liability insurance then yes, I was a painter by trade before and still do privates here and there between being a mate.

 

[Notyetaspark]

I've mostly always worked for agencies. Been on the books three times and didn't really like it. Get a decent agency and they'll keep you going. I've been offered jobs with the company's I've subbed to so just keep going. Be the very best at conduit, earn trust and you'll move up. It's a snowball effect when it gets going.

That's good to hear and to know that it is possible to do it that way then.

 

[buzzlightyear]

If you mean have I got public liability insurance then yes, I was a painter by trade before and still do privates

is this for electrics or paint a wall !

 

[Notyetaspark]

is this for electrics or paint a wall !

My employers have got that covered mate

 

[buzzlightyear]

My employers have got that covered mate

no ,only for their work , not for you doing foreigners.

 

[uksrevivor]

Did you start as a mate and stay with one employer or bounce around job to job?
And was this all on commercial as well?

I started as a pat tester boring as feck and was promised to be trained as electrician which never happened so i self funded my quals with my redundancy money from previous trade and managed to get a reply from my now employer who has trained me up, not a lot of hours at first but he saw that i worked hard and wanted to achieve a goal of being fully qualified. I worked with a few pat testing firms in between but all were sticker crazy false testing firms. One thing my employer was pleased with is that i was not taking a 5 week so called wonder course to become an electrician i went along the city and guilds diploma route. My work ranged from industrial / commercial and domestic so a bit of everything but he always taught me a variety of installation work.
Im still working towards getting fully qualified but his influence has given me confidence and taught me what i know today.
I consider myself lucky to be honest good mentors are out there. Its been crap at times with little or no work but its now paying off and loyalty has seen me get where i am today.

 

[Alanuk]

Give the lad a break!!! He has come for some advice and guidance from people who have been there before and their experience, instead he gets smart arse and sarcastic replies..............

All he is saying that he feels like he isnt progressing like he should and how to go about the situation.

Well if it was me i would keep on applying for other company's and even the days your not working for money i would even do voluntary on the basis that I am getting some hands on work also and then with a bit of experience behind you you are more appealing to other company's, who know they might start paying you and want to take you on, Just keep networking and talking to the lads on site and someone will give you the break you want.

 

[uksrevivor]

Did you start as a mate and stay with one employer or bounce around job to job?
And was this all on commercial as well?

I started as a pat tester boring as feck and was promised to be trained as electrician which never happened so i self funded my quals with my redundancy money from previous trade and managed to get a reply from my now employer who has trained me up, not a lot of hours at first but he saw that i worked hard and wanted to achieve a goal of being fully qualified. I worked with a few pat testing firms in between but all were sticker crazy false testing firms. One thing my employer was pleased with is that i was not taking a 5 week so called wonder course to become an electrician i went along the city and guilds diploma route. My work ranged from industrial / commercial and domestic so a bit of everything but he always taught me a variety of installation work.
Im still working towards getting fully qualified but his influence has given me confidence and taught me what i know today.
I consider myself lucky to be honest good mentors are out there. Its been crap at times with little or no work but its now paying off and loyalty has seen me get where i am today.

 

[Alanuk]

Give the lad a break!!! He has come for some advice and guidance from people who have been there before and their experience, instead he gets smart arse and sarcastic replies..............

All he is saying that he feels like he isnt progressing like he should and how to go about the situation.

Well if it was me i would keep on applying for other company's and even the days your not working for money i would even do voluntary on the basis that I am getting some hands on work also and then with a bit of experience behind you you are more appealing to other company's, who know they might start paying you and want to take you on, Just keep networking and talking to the lads on site and someone will give you the break you want.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Give the lad a break!!! He has come for some advice and guidance from people who have been there before and their experience, instead he gets smart arse and sarcastic replies..............

out their in the real world it can be lonely & a lot sharks will take advantage of people
I know is was one of them .