FIRST HOME - Help with new Consumer Unit

[DaniQ]

My partner and I bought our first house a week ago. We don't have much DIY experience but we are determined to learn and do as much work as we can to save cost.

The house is a 3bed an ex-council house built in 1959 and needs a complete refurbishment.

The existing CU is not too old (pvc wires) but we have to add sockets, electric shower...and we prefer to get it upgraded. Please see photos.

I have had an electrician having a look a few hours ago. He said he can move the CU 180 degrees facing the hall with the length of the existing cables. He quoted me £250 for moving the CU, including new CU.

He said he could install the following CU:
http://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/britis...dual-rcd-consumer-unit/2920g?_requestid=39295

If I replace it I would like to get a good quality one with space for more modules and individual ring per floor for the lights and sockets, 2 sockets outside, an electric shower, induction cooker, oven...

I am thinking something Like:
RCD 1
32A Upstairs Ring Main
6A Upstairs lights
6A Smoke Detector
16A????? Immersion heater - in case the gas boiler fails

RCD 2
32A Kitchen Ring Main
32A Downstairs Ring Main
6A Downstairs Lights
45A Cooker

Do you think I could reuse the RCBOs from my current CU for the new one :
RCBO 1
Electric Shower (9-10kw)

RCBO 2
Outside sockets or kitchen sockets


My questions are:

1. Could you recommend a better Consumer Unit?

2. Would it be to much work and too expensive to split the existing ring socket and lights per floor? Or should just leave as it is?

3. What do you think about using the RCBO for shower and outside or kitchen socket?

4. Could you please arrange the two RCDs in a better way?

5. Do you think the MCD specs are OK (amps)?

6. What do you think about this job for £250?

Thank you very much. We are quite stressed wih the refurbishment and your help would be much appreciated.

 

[JK-Electrical]

My issues have been:
Cage clamp terminals stripping their threads before tightening
RCDs not meeting times
Flimsy blanks that fall out
Poorly made bars and screws that can also strip easily

I experienced pretty much the same set of problems with a BG board that I fitted a couple of weeks ago. One of the meter tails kept slipping out of the cage clamp. An RCD was found to be defective. This is the second - and final - time that this has happened to me with a BG board, and some of the screws on the neutral and earth bars were quite stiff to turn. In addition, I had a titanic struggle to get the lid aligned. NEVER again.

 

[Rpa07]

And that's the problem with these cheaper boards that will inevitably be fitted by the chancers, poorly fitted and with little or no testing going against good workmanship from the get go. How many future faults will be incubating by the fitting of these cheap inadequate boards by cheap and inadequate fitters?

 

[DaniQ]

Thank you to everyone for your opinions and ideas.

I removed part of the plasterboard on the wall where the CU has to be fitted. It is a bearing wall with space of 320mm in between the studs, I expected to have a bit of luck and get at least 360mm to get a normal CU but I wasn't lucky this time.The space in between plasterboard is 85mm.

I have been searching for the right size of box but I can''t find any Dual RCD box to fit there with a minimum of 7 MCBs.

I would love to get a Design 10 Flush Consumer Unit by Hager with 10 ways and get the main switch plus 8 RCBOs but we are talking of over £250 and It doesn't give much room for future upgrades.

Also I have seen a Wylex one which I could fit removing the plasterboard on the back and fitting a new solid wood board on the top of the plaster (screwing to the timber, of course) to make the wall 12mm deeper. It shouldn't be to difficult.
Wylex Metal 17th Edition Amendment 3 7W High Integrity + 7 MCBs Consumer Unit - Toolstation - https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/d190/Wylex+Consumer+Units/sd2615/Wylex+Metal+17th+Edition+Amendment+3+7W+High+Integrity+%2B+7+MCBs+Consumer+Unit/p67344


I could take out an RCD and fit individual RCBOs to get extra space from a "two way" RCD ending with:


11 SPACE
RCD 1
32A Socket Ring Main
6A Smoke Detector and Lights
16A Immersion heater - in case the gas boiler fails
6A Gas Boiler


RCBO
32A Induction Hob
32A Separate Oven
32A Kitchen Ring Main
16A Outside Sockets
40A Electric Shower



What do you think about this idea? Also do you think I could combine any anything to save space in the CU?

Again, Thank you very much for all your help

 

[Octopus]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

 

[DaniQ]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

Yes, this is what that post is about, replacing this CU. I'm trying to find the right one to fit in between the timber.

 

[telectrix]

if that stud wall is not load bearing, you could probably get away with chopping a piece out of 1 of the vertical timbers. maybe to 1 where your hand is in pic#1. and reinforce with a couple of noggins.

 

[SJD]

You could take all the plasterboard off, and move one of the studs a few inches, to gain a bit more width.

You could also fit a dual RCD board but remove one of the RCDs and instead fit a few RCBOs and the remaining RCD, that will win you 2 slots.

 

[DaniQ]

if that stud wall is not load bearing, you could probably get away with chopping a piece out of 1 of the vertical timbers. maybe to 1 where your hand is in pic#1.

Is there any easy way to know what type of wall this is?

 

[telectrix]

stud walls are generally not load bearing. load bearing walls are generally masonry and if you look directly above, upstairs, you'll see if there's a wall directly above.

 

[Midwest]

I don't think the Polish electrician even exists, if he does his written English is very good. Better than mine.

 

[Octopus]

Yes, this is what that post is about, replacing this CU. I'm trying to find the right one to fit in between the timber.

Dare I suggest you ask the spark who is going to do the work?

 

[DaniQ]

Just to clear out a few points to understand where I'm coming from:

I work in IT (Comms) where the work has to be planned very methodically to make sure you don't f*** up, leaving a few thousand users having a long break while you try to fix it. Then I a'm bit of control freak...Probably you know that by now.

I'm not Polish, I'm Spanish instead.

I'm not going to do the CU move myself. The Polish electrician will do it, I got a few things done by him in the past and he's been completely fine.

I'm trying to get everything organised before he arrives to install a CU to find this doesn't fit, with the clock ticking and money running out of my pocket.

You probably think...leave it to the professionals but I'm just planning and trying to understand as much as I can to avoid mistakes.

My partner and I have been saving money for the last 8 years to get to this point and as you can imagine after all this effort we want to do things right.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Don't scrimp on the electrics, I only use Schneider or MK boards as there top quality and parts readily available. Your Electrician should be advising you about all these questions you are asking as he can see everything onsite. He should be able to determine the layout of the circuits in the board and advise the best options, have you had an EICR carried out at all? £250 seems very cheap and I wouldn't install a BG board, cheap and nasty. I usually charge between £400-450 including full EIC, do your water and gas bonding need upgrading? When it comes to electrics pay a professional to do the work and make sure there a member of an organisation such Stroma, NICEIC, Elecsa etc, you will pay more than £250 but at least the job will be done properly and you won't have to keep posting on here asking questions.

 

[Andy78]

You probably think...leave it to the professionals but I'm just planning and trying to understand as much as I can to avoid mistakes.

My partner and I have been saving money for the last 8 years to get to this point and as you can imagine after all this effort we want to do things right.

Doing things right, avoiding mistakes, and saving money, does mean leaving things to the professionals. The right professionals who are fully aware of the electrical regulations and legal requirements of this country. You need to verify you will be getting an electrical installation certificate and a building control certificate. You can research if your electrician will be able to notify building control without added cost or complication to yourself.

 

[Midwest]

Just to clear out a few points to understand where I'm coming from:

I work in IT (Comms) where the work has to be planned very methodically to make sure you don't f*** up, leaving a few thousand users having a long break while you try to fix it. Then I a'm bit of control freak...Probably you know that by now.

I'm not Polish, I'm Spanish instead.

I'm not going to do the CU move myself. The Polish electrician will do it, I got a few things done by him in the past and he's been completely fine.

I'm trying to get everything organised before he arrives to install a CU to find this doesn't fit, with the clock ticking and money running out of my pocket.

You probably think...leave it to the professionals but I'm just planning and trying to understand as much as I can to avoid mistakes.

My partner and I have been saving money for the last 8 years to get to this point and as you can imagine after all this effort we want to do things right.

You might want to have read of this thread then;

Few questions for an electrical installation - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/few-questions-for-an-electrical-installation.122134/

 

[suffolkspark]

whats wrong with that board? its got the stab bus bar so just buy a selection of crabtree rcbo's to stick in it? better to do that if your on a budget than buying some BG piece of garbage

 

[Billsays]

whats wrong with that board? its got the stab bus bar so just buy a selection of crabtree rcbo's to stick in it? better to do that if your on a budget than buying some BG piece of garbage

Suffolkspark is right, you have an 11 way starbreaker consumer unit, you just need Crabtree Starbreaker RCBOS for all the circuits. Bin the old style 2 module RCBOS to maximise your capacity at the ccu.
I would be a bit wary if your Pole didn't point that out straight away.

 

[davesparks]

Suffolkspark is right, you have an 11 way starbreaker consumer unit, you just need Crabtree Starbreaker RCBOS for all the circuits. Bin the old style 2 module RCBOS to maximise your capacity at the ccu.
I would be a bit wary if your Pole didn't point that out straight away.

whats wrong with that board? its got the stab bus bar so just buy a selection of crabtree rcbo's to stick in it? better to do that if your on a budget than buying some BG piece of garbage

Taking all of the guts out and replacing them puts it into dubious territory on the non-combustible CU front. Especially considering that, as far as I know, the whole lid is plastic not just the window.

 

[davesparks]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

In the interests of being irritatingly pedantic, an RCBO is a type of RCD, what that board does not have is RCCBs

 

[suffolkspark]

It's existing and if not in a sole means of escape doesn't even warrant a C3 on EICR so IMO perfectly upgradeable and useable and a better option than to replace with some piece of s*** BG unit which I'm pretty sure we all know by now isn't going to get tested properly either!

 

[Billsays]

Taking all of the guts out and replacing them puts it into dubious territory on the non-combustible CU front. Especially considering that, as far as I know, the whole lid is plastic not just the window.

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

 

[Midwest]

Old CU's and new RCBO's are some times compatible, as long as you seek manufacturer guidance first. However, I fitted two Hager RCBO's in one of their older CU's, and there wasn't a lot of room for the wiring termination.

Some manufacturers offer RCBO populated CU's, which are cheaper to purchase than individual devices, and the CU has been designed for RCBO's.

 

[Risteard]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

Actually given that RCBOs are a type of RCD it most certainly does have RCDs. It doesn't have any RCCBs however.

 

[Risteard]

Sorry davesparks I hadn't seen your post when I posted that.

 

[Octopus]

Actually given that RCBOs are a type of RCD it most certainly does have RCDs. It doesn't have any RCCBs however.

Boys ......... the vast majority of Joe Public don't understand the differences ........ so I stand by my statement (and I don't think the later versions of the RCBO will fit that board ).

The OP needs a new CU............. end of.

 

[telectrix]

i agree. due to the busbar layout on these boards, it's next to impossible to re-configure them.

 

[Billsays]

i agree. due to the busbar layout on these boards, it's next to impossible to re-configure them.

What's to reconfigure? This board has no RCDs, it's a Crabtree starbreaker board with a main switch. Remove the mcbs and the obsolete double module RCBOs and replace with modern RCBOs. Gives the Op all the capacity he needs.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

 

[Midwest]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

I can see this being contentious

 

[Billsays]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

Really? please explain.