Battery Did the RAC condemn a serviceable car battery?

[Bob Snapper]

8 am, cold morning I started my 3 litre Toyota Hilux as normal, drove 20 miles to a meeting but left my headlights lights on at 8.25... doh.

11 am coffee - realised and found lights very dim. There was power but not enough to turn the engine,

Called the RAC. They arrived , collected my keys from Reception, set to work. My meeting ended, I went to the Hilux to be met by the RAC Engineer who said "All sorted, we've replaced the battery, nothing to pay"

I spent the next week telling people what a wonderful RAC scheme I was on. Then the bill arrived - £183 for a battery routinely sold for £100.

I naively thought our (expensive) business scheme had cover for some parts.

BUT WAS MY OLD BATTERY REALLY ACTUALLY UNSERVICEABLE?

It had started OK that morning and for 2 years since we bought the vehicle. No sign of a problem. I had simply expected a jump start.

Is there a battery expert out there who can interpret these printout results the RAC have given me since bearing in mind it was a flat battery when they attended.

Thanks

Adrian

Battery Test Results
Battery Test
Battery Manufacturer: OTHER
Rating of battery tested: 770CCA
Chemistry of battery tested: FLOODED
Rated Ah of battery tested: 90
Smart charge: No
Battery Test Results
Time: 23/11/2017 11:58
Temperature: 9.4°C
Measured voltage: 11.01Volts
Measured rating: 0CCA
Reserve capacity: Poor Reserve
State of health: 40%
State of charge: 0%
Test Result: Replace battery
System Test
Jump pack used:Yes
Starter Avg voltage: 9.15Volts
Starter Avg current: 26.8Amps
Starter result decision: Charge Battery
Alternator voltage (unloaded): 0Volts
Alternator voltage (loaded): 13.41Volts
Alternator current (unloaded): 0Amps
Alternator current (loaded): 22.6Amps
Diode decision: Normal
Alternator test decision: Normal
First drain test voltage: 11.01Volts
First drain test current: 0.1Amps
Second drain test voltage: 12.45Volts
Second drain test current: 0.1Amps

 

[Tes369]

The RAC get a commission for what they sell car batteries, oil, fluids etc.

And most of them are fitters not mechanics.

Some are very good and some are terrible.

 

[static zap]

Modern batteries ,don't enjoy deep discharge. Flip a coin for the answer !
(They were busy - don't have a gov incentive to re-test every battery )

 

[PEG]

Hi,looking at the data,and estimating the age and possible condition of your battery,they did the only thing they could - and charged accordingly.

In a parallel universe,someone is posting on a forum,to ask if an RAC man should have fitted a new battery,instead of just jump-starting the vehicle,as it failed a week later...

 

[Strima]

They're on commission for things like that, what do you think?

Did he give you your old battery back? You are entitled to it as it is yours in the eyes of the law.

Did he seek permission from you to fit a new battery?

I would have got a jump start, got home and charged it up. Only then can you really tell if a battery is dead or not.

 

[static zap]

Their new T&C do err on side of "You
MUST have a good battery to be a member" ..or it will cost..
(member since 1996- recovered towing on motorway x1 )

 

[Des 56]

Seems to me,or at least the way I read the description
The RAC guy picked up the keys,diagnosed a battery with minimal capacity under its belt,did what tests can be done on a discharged battery, made the reasonable conclusion it was knackered and changed the unit

Unless you informed him before his inspection that it had been left under load he would seem to have made a reasonable diagnosis
The only way a battery can be tested and the results used to determine its health is by doing a standard 10 hour charge and following on with voltage,specific gravity and a high load capacity test.
If his results show the alternator doing its bit then his action would have been merited

 

[gnuuser]

depending on the battery some types do not take a deep discharge as was stated above. an example is one with low cca(cold cranking amps) rating
another typical example is a gel battery used in many industrial ups units.
they have a long amp-hour rating but the take a extraordinary amount of time to charge ( and most cannot be safely rapid charged)

 

[Adam W]

As Des says, the situation the patrolman has come across seems to have been that the car won't start. It won't start because the battery is flat. There is charge going from the alternator into the battery so there should be charge in the battery, therefore the battery must be faulty, ergo he changed the battery.

It could be that the reason there was no charge in the battery was because you left the lights on, but if you didn't tell him then how would he have known?

 

[Octopus]

I think you should write to the RAC, question the bill AND the fact the operative changed the battery without consulting you.

Last Autumn my car wouldn't start .......... called Greenflag who came out, jump started it, and after checking the battery and alternator, advised me to replace the battery...... which I did about 30 mins later!

 

[Pete999]

Seems to me,or at least the way I read the description
The RAC guy picked up the keys,diagnosed a battery with minimal capacity under its belt,did what tests can be done on a discharged battery, made the reasonable conclusion it was knackered and changed the unit

Unless you informed him before his inspection that it had been left under load he would seem to have made a reasonable diagnosis
The only way a battery can be tested and the results used to determine its health is by doing a standard 10 hour charge and following on with voltage,specific gravity and a high load capacity test.
If his results show the alternator doing its bit then his action would have been merited

Bit like BG in someways then, sell something to someone just for the hell of it, whether it's needed or not.

 

[PEG]

I think we are missing the point,here...now i am no man for handing any entity,big or small,a free-for-all,in the pursuit of profits,but the RAC exist,for a specific purpose. To get you where you are going,in the event of a breakdown.

We can all do the armchair diagnosis,we mostly have our favoured repair route,which could be self administered,or a trusted garage,but at the time of "click,no go..." their monthly fee,means you have another option.

In the instant of a call-out,all additional options of extended testing,fully charging,having a blessing read...are off the table.

The scenario as described by the OP,would be best addressed,as it was.
The OP did not sign up,to have Cockney CSI turn up,and start taping off the crime scene...the battery was aged to be within it's possible fail time,and the OP wanted it to not only start,but to keep starting.

The battery was priced according to "you are in the mire" mark-up...this is expected,my only concern,would be if it was a particularly cheap model,but if one is overly concerned with brand-loyalty and testing procedure - turn off your lights.

Thank all that is holy,the OP did not have to make an emergency phone call,to BG's boiler cover hot-line...

The only two forums he would be posting on now,would be either Heckler and Koch's or Dignitas

 

[telectrix]

can you get Dignitas in superkings or do they only come in kingsize?

 

[Adam W]

The point which stands out to me is the OP didn't speak to the patrolman until he picked up the car, and then the issue seems to have been that the battery was marked up.

A few years ago I had to call the RAC for a flat battery after I stopped at a lifting bridge for about 10 minutes and left the radio on. He gave me a jumps start and did a few tests, then told me I needed a new battery. I didn't want to pay the markup so I said I'd do it myself and stopped off at GSF, fitted it myself and gave them the old battery to recycle. I was in a position to do this though, since I was stood next to the patrolman the whole time and he wouldn't have had to drag me out of a meeting.

 

[telectrix]

reminds me i need to rejoin RAC. not too concerned about local breakdowns ( it's a Toyota, and invincible ) but main concern is the £150 recovery on a motorway. plod will not allow you to leave it and come back to fix. it's got to be shifted.

 

[Adam W]

I only recently found out you can pay for your RAC with clubcard points. Also they've recently started charging an arm and a leg if you want to be covered for being in any vehicle as a passenger - it's much cheaper if you're covered on a specific vehicle.

 

[telectrix]

I only recently found out you can pay for your RAC with clubcard points. Also they've recently started charging an arm and a leg if you want to be covered for being in any vehicle as a passenger - it's much cheaper if you're covered on a specific vehicle.

RAC has always been the policyholder that's covered. not the vehicle. will need to check that out.

 

[pirate]

Tel, I didn't know about the £150...makes my AA (Automobile Association, before you start...) membership look cheap. I have been recovered half a dozen times in the last few years, and frankly am very impressed with the service. My daily commute was 40 miles each way, with maybe the same again during the working day, yet they always took my car to my own mechanic, who is 20 miles away in the opposite direction. Once they even sent a VIP transporter...not a big yellow thing but a discreet silver van which swallowed up my car...I liked that because the car had broken down on the High Street, and with its "cherished number" would have had the locals jeering!
As for the Dignitas superkings, maybe mixing them up with the B-side to Bend Me, Shape Me?
Again, if you're under 50, ignore this bit...

 

[telectrix]

I well remember bend me shape me, amen corner, but can't remember what the B side was.

 

[pirate]

The B side was "Satisnek The Jobs Worth"

 

[pirate]

How do I remeber these things, when I can't remember what I had for lunch???

 

[telectrix]

i always remember what i had for lunch. the empty bottles are there to see.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Seems correct to me. The lights were on for 2.5 hours at maybe 12A load. 30Ah useful reserve for a 90Ah battery means that it is at the end of its life. Modern engines are generally easy to start and can sometimes be cranked with nothing more than an alarm battery, so it is possible the for car's own battery to have lost much of its capacity before the car won't start. But then one minor slip like this and there's no reserve capacity. Provided the alternator is charging it properly (without which even the new one will keep going flat) then I would have changed it too. There's no point pratting about with substandard batteries.

 

[Bob Snapper]

Thank you Lucien Nunes. That explains why the RAC reported "State of health 40%" but the reason "State of charge 0%" was I had left my lights on, not that the battery had suddenly failed. I did tell the engineer that.

They report that the alternator was charging OK so should they not have jump started the vehicle, recommend running for a few minutes before driving off and advised me to change the battery at an early opportunity. Surely they should at least to have offered me the old battery albeit only 40% health.

It seems that in the RAC terms and conditions they can supply and fit parts up to £300 value without asking permission.

I expect the RAC to make some money from supplying the battery but are RAC Engineers on some sort of bonus/commission/brownie point system that gives them an incentive to supply parts that might not be essential at the time?

 

[davesparks]

They report that the alternator was charging OK so should they not have jump started the vehicle, recommend running for a few minutes before driving off and advised me to change the battery at an early opportunity. Surely they should at least to have offered me the old battery albeit only 40% health.

It seems that in the RAC terms and conditions they can supply and fit parts up to £300 value without asking permission.

Should they have done that? Maybe.
But then you could also ask whether you should have turned your lights off or whether you should have identified that the battery was reaching the end of its life as part of your regular maintainence of your vehicle?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I do a full discharge cycle annually on the boat batteries to confirm that the meter readings are representative of how the batteries would perform in an emergency. Specifically because of the very large reserve - enough that I can get away with leaving the fridge on battery for a few weeks if needed - but for exactly that reason the capacity can fall off unnoticed during normal use, unless one keeps an eye on the dials.

 

[Bob Snapper]

I've driven a million miles in maybe 30 different vehicles and this Hilux from day one 3 years ago always seemed to turn the engine over slowly when starting (It is a big 3 litre diesel).

I had it checked particularly when we first bought it and beyond normal servicing I specifically asked for and watched a rapid discharge test not that long ago and was told all was OK. Maybe a rapid discharge test wasn't enough.

What threw me here was the delight that I had apparently got a free battery "no charge mate, it's part of your cover".

What he meant was no charge now.......

Death and taxes. I know.

 

[telectrix]

not knocking the RAC man for his actions, but the mark upon the battery is scandalous. makes me wonder if RAC is owned by British Grasp.

 

[Adam W]

Really? Try this then:

4 and a half Euros for a cup of coffee and a Twix.

 

[Pete E]

I am with Green Flag and had them out one evening to do a "home start" due to a flat battery. I confess that I already suspected my battery was on the way out, but the cold weather plus an interior light left accidently on, killed it.

They came out and simply jump started it..After a few questions, he advised me to change the battery asap or he could change it but the cost would be quite high...He also warned for the next 28 days I wasn't covered if I ignored the advice and had a another flat battery.

I replaced the battery within a day or so, but all in all he handled the situation as I would of expected even if he didn't do any in depth fancy analysis of the battery....

 

[static zap]

.....
It seems that in the RAC terms and conditions they can supply and fit parts up to £300 value without asking permission.

Add good servicable-spare tyre to the list of -Pocket hurting parts-
..these T & Cs have slowly evolved as people take advantage of RELAY ... Complete your journey promise ..that I originally liked ...
(and even the Policy holder-rather than vehicle)

 

[telectrix]

er'indoors car does not have a spare wheel, not even a get you home pram wheel. instead it came supplied with an inflator and a can of foam. the foam is out of date and needs replacing at some horrific cost, and it's of no earthly use if you get a sidewall split due to hitting one of the thousands of potholes that decorate our roads. progress my arse.

 

[gnuuser]

( it's a Toyota, and invincible )

you got that nail on the head.
when my uncle passed away many years ago he had one of the original toyota corrolas
his son had it junked ( it had more than 750,000 miles on it and was still going strong, even the body was still in decent shape)

 

[Squid]

er'indoors car does not have a spare wheel, not even a get you home pram wheel. instead it came supplied with an inflator and a can of foam. the foam is out of date and needs replacing at some horrific cost, and it's of no earthly use if you get a sidewall split due to hitting one of the thousands of potholes that decorate our roads. progress my arse.

£10,

Holts Tyreweld 500ml - https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/tyre-inflators-pressure-gauges/holts-tyreweld-500ml