Fault find (Electrical condition report) or (Electrical Installation certificate)

[samsingh]

Hi guys, I have carried out some testing on a existing domestic installation, I was finding a low IR Result on a lighting circuit. I identified and rectified the fault. I am going to carry on the with the testing on the weekend and will be doing the paperwork for my Testing on the install I just wanted to ask someone which of the two, electrical condition report or electrical installation certificate to use, both documents will include schedule of tests, condition report ETC.

I was swaying towards doing a electrical condition report. I would just like to ask and be certain. I've previously in the past tested on new installs and not had to do a condition report yet.

Thanks for the help guys

 

[SJD]

If you've been asked to do an inspection & test, to generate an EICR, then that is what you should produce.

Any remedial work might also warrant a certificate, either an EIC or minor works, depending on what work was done.

 

[JBW175]

As it’s an existing installation that you’re inspecting and testing, you need to complete an EICR with full schedule of test results.

Faults that you’ve found and rectified, still need to be reported on and coded accordingly.

 

[samsingh]

Thank you very much guys

 

[davesparks]

If you are inspecting and testing an existing installation then it is an EICR.
Inspection and testing of new work carried out is an EIC.

If you have done inspection and testing, and the fault rectification resulting from the inspection and testing then you issue an EICR for the inspection and testing and then issue an EIC (or minor works) for the repair work.

 

[samsingh]

If you are inspecting and testing an existing installation then it is an EICR.
Inspection and testing of new work carried out is an EIC.

If you have done inspection and testing, and the fault rectification resulting from the inspection and testing then you issue an EICR for the inspection and testing and then issue an EIC (or minor works) for the repair work.

Nice one

If you are inspecting and testing an existing installation then it is an EICR.
Inspection and testing of new work carried out is an EIC.

If you have done inspection and testing, and the fault rectification resulting from the inspection and testing then you issue an EICR for the inspection and testing and then issue an EIC (or minor works) for the repair work.

nice one

 

[Pete999]

If you've been asked to do an inspection & test, to generate an EICR, then that is what you should produce.

Any remedial work might also warrant a certificate, either an EIC or minor works, depending on what work was done.

Hi guys, I have carried out some testing on a existing domestic installation, I was finding a low IR Result on a lighting circuit. I identified and rectified the fault. I am going to carry on the with the testing on the weekend and will be doing the paperwork for my Testing on the install I just wanted to ask someone which of the two, electrical condition report or electrical installation certificate to use, both documents will include schedule of tests, condition report ETC.

I was swaying towards doing a electrical condition report. I would just like to ask and be certain. I've previously in the past tested on new installs and not had to do a condition report yet.

Thanks for the help guys

Sam, if you have altered the circuit in any way, JB or whatever then wouldn't a MNEWCert cover the work, depends I suppose on the extent of the works carried out,

 

[samsingh]

Sam, if you have altered the circuit in any way, JB or whatever then wouldn't a MNEWCert cover the work, depends I suppose on the extent of the works carried out,

All I have done is identified that there was a low reading on my IR on the lighting circuit. I seen that in the switch there was a nip on the side of the L insulation which was caught by the screw screwing the switch back to the metal back box making it a short circuit.

Given how small the nip was I rectified it with some brown insulation tape.

I wanted to record it for testing purposes but I'm not sure if I need to put it on a minor works?

 

[Pete999]

All I have done is identified that there was a low reading on my IR on the lighting circuit. I seen that in the switch there was a nip on the side of the L insulation which was caught by the screw screwing the switch back to the metal back box making it a short circuit.

Given how small the nip was I rectified it with some brown insulation tape.

I wanted to record it for testing purposes but I'm not sure if I need to put it on a minor works?

Would have been better with some brown sleveing Sam, just do a MNEW and note what you have done

 

[samsingh]

Would have been better with some brown sleveing Sam, just do a MNEW and note what you have done

Good shout I will change it for a bit of sleeve.

 

[Pete999]

Good shout I will change it for a bit of sleeve.

Good Man you know it's the right thing to do, tape can become slippery and fall off the conductor, sleveing is the best option.

 

[Midwest]

My concern is for all these trees that will need to be cut down, for form filling for a nicked cable (or cost of lecy for emailed forms).

 

[Pete999]

Good shout I will change it for a bit of sleeve.

I suppose in hindsight it would depend on what you were employed to do, rectify the fault OR carry out an EICR if it was the later then complete the EICR cert if the former then In my opinion a MNEWC is the best option , with a caveat that a full EICR should follow ASAP as a matter of importence.

 

[peterhyper]

Not sure why any form is necessary.

 

[Pete999]

Not sure why any form is necessary.

You will need some form of record Peter the MNEWC is in my opinion is the easiest way forward, if you disagree please tell me your thoughts. Perhaps you have come up with a better solution, other than " is there any need for certification"

 

[Midwest]

Kinda agree with @peterhyper. But as OP has done some testing to locate the fault, then they can be provided. But apart from covering ones arse, does completing a certificate actually achieve ought, not withstanding if the client requests said certificate; I’m referring to my mythical Mrs Miggins, who just stick it in the bin.

Just saying. Do miss that Murdoch bloke, even SMD.

 

[radiohead]

You will need some form of record Peter the MNEWC is in my opinion is the easiest way forward, if you disagree please tell me your thoughts. Perhaps you have come up with a better solution, other than " is there any need for certification"

Most of the 'forms for everything' advocates dont actually have to fill the bleeding things in themselves!!
Reading the thread I'm not sure if the OP is carrying out an inspection or responding to a fault call. If the latter I would not provide a form for such a minor repair, assuming the circuit was otherwise satisfactory when re-energised. IMO it should be a given that as a professional electrician the circuit will only be re-energised if it is in a safe condition to do so, a form proves nothing, the fact that the circuit has been re-energised by a professional electrician should be all the 'record' required. Any Tom, Dick or Abdul can fabricate a form.
The electricians invoice will be a 'record' that the circuit was left in a safe condition.

 

[GBDamo]

Most of the 'forms for everything' advocates dont actually have to fill the bleeding things in themselves!!
Reading the thread I'm not sure if the OP is carrying out an inspection or responding to a fault call. If the latter I would not provide a form for such a minor repair, assuming the circuit was otherwise satisfactory when re-energised. IMO it should be a given that as a professional electrician the circuit will only be re-energised if it is in a safe condition to do so, a form proves nothing, the fact that the circuit has been re-energised by a professional electrician should be all the 'record' required. Any Tom, Dick or Abdul can fabricate a form.
The electricians invoice will be a 'record' that the circuit was left in a safe condition.

Repairs and maintenance, no cert unless client specifically requests one then charge them, significantly more than the repair to teach the bleeders a lesson.

Some people must walk round with dustbin lids down their pants the fear they have for exposing their ---. Either that or, as said elsewhere, they don't have to fill the damn things in.

 

[peterhyper]

You will need some form of record Peter the MNEWC is in my opinion is the easiest way forward, if you disagree please tell me your thoughts. Perhaps you have come up with a better solution, other than " is there any need for certification"

Pete, When I attend a fault that is something simple like a poor connection or a faulty switch or socket, I will resolve the fault and do a simple ZS and RCD test and that's it. Tighting a loose wire or replacing a light switch or socket won't get me issuing any type of cert.

I have previously been criticised on here before for not issuing a MWC for replacing a plastic light switch, but I never have or never will. Specific advice has been given to people on here on many occasions who have absolutely no training, qualifications, equipment or basic knowledge of how to perform a number of electrical tasks, and of course they also can't issue any type of certificate, but that appears to be fine, but despite me having the training, qualifications, equipment and more than a basic knowledge, its not okay by some people for me not to issue a certificate for tightening a loose conductor?

I don't ever criticise or care if sparks want to issue a cert for tightening a loose conductor or replacing a plastic light switch, but I never will.

Edit: so to answer the question, there isn't a problem for me to have to find a solution for.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Just saying. Do miss that Murdoch bloke, even SMD.

Me too. I enjoyed reading his posts. Bring back Murdoch!

 

[Midwest]

Me too. I enjoyed reading his posts. Bring back Murdoch!

Yep, hope Murdoch's keeping well, wherever he might be lurking. Even liked SWD input, even ……….spinlondon

 

[Lister1987]

I would look at it in this light; if the work I do involves anything that I or the client would class as consumables (bulbs, bit of sleeving, plug top fuse) or a level of preventative maintainance expected of a basic householder then I wouldn't deem a cert required (unless you're including testing), any work that involves replacing or maintaining a fixed wiring fitting the I would generate a cert for - this is meant as a dynamic list -we all know the jobs that would be deemed beyond the realm of joe public - and as such is non-exhaustive, by all mean so add your own;

Bulb change; no cert
Tightening loose switch connections in sockets/switches; no cert - unless testing done beforehand and it flagged suspect loose terminals
Changing plug top fuse; no cert
Changing plug socket/light switch; generate cert (because we're all tightening to manu torque settings aren't we)
Changing light fixture; generate cert
work within CU; generate cert

Feel free to expand on

 

[GBDamo]

I would look at it in this light; if the work I do involves anything that I or the client would class as consumables (bulbs, bit of sleeving, plug top fuse) or a level of preventative maintainance expected of a basic householder then I wouldn't deem a cert required (unless you're including testing), any work that involves replacing or maintaining a fixed wiring fitting the I would generate a cert for - this is meant as a dynamic list -we all know the jobs that would be deemed beyond the realm of joe public - and as such is non-exhaustive, by all mean so add your own;

Bulb change; no cert
Tightening loose switch connections in sockets/switches; no cert - unless testing done beforehand and it flagged suspect loose terminals
Changing plug top fuse; no cert
Changing plug socket/light switch; generate cert (because we're all tightening to manu torque settings aren't we)
Changing light fixture; generate cert
work within CU; generate cert

Feel free to expand on

My rough rule of thumb is if I'm adding/removing circuit cable or splitting existing circuit cable then it's altering the original design of the circuit sufficient to require a cert.

Anything else is upkeep.

You could arguably add/alter withiuout the above but rare so it stands up as a rule of thumb.

 

[Flanders]

For such a minor repair I would do the Eicr and right a comment on the observation page stating that the observation was rectified at the time of inspection and write info or note in the column where you would normally but the code

 

[peterhyper]

For such a minor repair I would do the Eicr and right a comment on the observation page stating that the observation was rectified at the time of inspection and write info or note in the column where you would normally but the code

Is an EICR intended/designed to be used for a minor repair?

 

[GBDamo]

Is an EICR intended/designed to be used for a minor repair?

I think there's a bit of confusion as to weather the fault was duscovered during an EICR or as a fault call out.

Hence the make a note on the EICR, if doing one, or nothing at all if a call out.

 

[Flanders]

Is an EICR intended/designed to be used for a minor repair?

No but the OP was already doing the Eicr so why caurse confusion issuing an unsatisfactory report and another peace of paper saying you fixed it at the same time.

 

[peterhyper]

No but the OP was already doing the Eicr so why caurse confusion issuing an unsatisfactory report and another peace of paper saying you fixed it at the same time.

Why cause confusion entering the fault on an eicr when it was resolved (there won't be a fault present when the EICR is completed).