Differences of opinion!!

[SirKit Breaker]

In days gone by, things may have been different, and i agree with you lot, there are a set of standards to follow, and they answer all of the questions we need answering. Tutors should only preach the facts, the problem is that most of them can't be arsed to stay up to date with the requirements.

Don't get me wrong, i am not perfect, and there are bits and bats that catch me out now and again, but this is usually highlighted by course delegates, and i then check up on what they have told me, and change myself to suit if needs be.

Even as a tutor i learn something new on every course that i deliver, this is because i don't know it all, and neither do i claim to. Tutors, myself included should have a mandatory requirement to keep up to date, and also be assessed at frequent intervals to ensure this is happening. as a matter of course, when things update like the wiring regs, I will sit the exams, and have a nosey through the changes, Ok wiring regs are not the most inspiring read, but it is my job, and people pay good money to be told the right things, so it is important that i get it right as far as possible.


Cheers…………Howard

 

[Jay Sparks]

Oh I don't disagree with you mate, but that is why every electrical department in every college should have a highly experienced head of department that will crack heads together if need be!

Some day I will...lol

 

[spark 68]

Bloody hell, I kept out of that thread for the most part lol

My opinion on that one is similar to Geoffs and Damiens method by testing across the ECPs on an EICR where the SB was inaccessible and no RCD I would code one of two ways depending on the rest of the install.

For domestic only
If it was in good condition and reasonable only did not comply to current regs, and provided it tested out ok (between ECPs in the bathroom) all other things being equal it would seem harsh to give a C2 in that situation I would give a C3.

If it was a mess and had other C2s or even C1s I would C2 it, but then again if the remedials entailed fitting RCD protection it would in most cases negate this point anyway.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Bloody hell, I kept out of that thread for the most part lol

My opinion on that one is similar to Geoffs and Damiens method by testing across the ECPs on an EICR where the SB was inaccessible and no RCD I would code one of two ways depending on the rest of the install.

For dometic only
If it was in good condition and reasonable only did not comply to current regs, and provided it tested out ok (between ECPs in the bathroom) all other things being equal it would seem harsh to give a C2 in that situation I would give a C3.

If it was a mess and had other C2s or even C1s I would C2 it, but then again if the remedials entailed fitting RCD protection it would in most cases negate this point anyway.

I wasnt having a pop at the thread or any of the opinions. I myself have had heated debates about what I believe and what others dont. I just wondered how many other things people differ over and whether that can affect the teaching of new sparks.

Jay

 

[spark 68]

Hi Jay I added a lol on the end, because I cannot add smileys.

No it as an interesting thread, I have a slight difference of opinion here:http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...cal-regulations/88385-what-size-your-cpc.html

lol

 

[Jay Sparks]

Hi Jay I added a lol on the end, because I cannot add smileys.

No it as an interesting thread, I have a slight difference of opinion here:http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...cal-regulations/88385-what-size-your-cpc.html



lol

I think there are hundreds of threads on here where people have disagreed on certain things. I wonder if the wet heads or wood butchers have the same problem???Then again, they probably wouldn't even know if they did.

 

[Engineer54]

Any lecturer worth his salt would say that the regs say this but in practice x is what you should really be aiming for

How many of the college tutors of today, have that much ''know how/experience'' with TT systems and/or it's derivatives? It's quite an extensive subject in it's own right, very little of which comes even close to getting a mention in the holy BGB!!

The whole section on TT systems within BS7671 and it's guidance notes, needs a complete overhaul, with far better guidance being given on minimum Ra values and the importance of the systems stability.

Banning the use of those short 3/8'' thin twigs wouldn't be a bad place to start either!! You'll never make a TT system out of those bloody useless things come rain or shine!! lol!!

 

[Darkwood]

Just backtracking a minute here regarding Low Voltage systems and definitions ... its been discussed here but although ive quickly scanned this thread i see no-one actually point out a glaring fact in that Voltage in this instance is measured between 2 points ... the subject has been discussed without anyone actually stating the ref' points so how can you comment on a value without it.

Low Voltage - Exceeding extra-low voltage but not exceeding 1000V ac or 1500V dc BETWEEN CONDUCTORS or 600V ac or 900V dc BETWEEN CONDUCTORS AND EARTH.

It seems strange to discuss such a subject without mentioning what the voltage is between as this is key to the permitted value.

NOTE! - This is extracted from the BS7671 itself but is an old hat in its description as regulations have been updated and changed over the years i feel as functional earthing is now part of the regulations it would be better reworded to say BETWEEN LIVE CONDUCTORS and respectively BETWEEN LIVE CONDUCTORS AND EARTH.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Just backtracking a minute here regarding Low Voltage systems and definitions ... its been discussed here but although ive quickly scanned this thread i see no-one actually point out a glaring fact in that Voltage in this instance is measured between 2 points ... the subject has been discussed without anyone actually stating the ref' points so how can you comment on a value without it.

Low Voltage - Exceeding extra-low voltage but not exceeding 1000V ac or 1500V dc BETWEEN CONDUCTORS or 600V ac or 900V dc BETWEEN CONDUCTORS AND EARTH.

It seems strange to discuss such a subject without mentioning what the voltage is between as this is key to the permitted value.

NOTE! - This is extracted from the BS7671 itself but is an old hat in its description as regulations have been updated and changed over the years i feel as functional earthing is now part of the regulations it would be better reworded to say BETWEEN LIVE CONDUCTORS and respectively BETWEEN LIVE CONDUCTORS AND EARTH.

Hi DW,


This thread isn't about LV. I just used it as an example of one persons opinion. Hence the reason I didn't go into the technical/cotrect interpritstion. The thread is about the differences electricians have on certain matters and in particular, tutors. Would this have an affect on the students if they are getting told different things by different tutors?




Jay

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think a lot of the problem is the way they are written. (See another thread)
One reg in question, I was thinking WTF with the last part of it, but with numerous re-readings and keeping in mind the earlier parts, it eventually becomes clear.
When a reg makes reference to one or more other regs, that's when it gets really confusing!!!

 

[spark 68]

Because as you say Archy, they are written in "legalese" (lawyer speak), and when the sh*t hits the fan (connected to the shower lol), the best lawyer in court wins.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Because as you say Archy, they are written in "legalese" (lawyer speak), and when the sh*t hits the fan (connected to the shower lol), the best lawyer in court wins.

Hahaha..I was thinking earlier, proper Legal speak makes the regs look a Ladybird book!

 

[Jay Sparks]

Ive heard sparks say that putting a joint box under floor boards is ok because unless its tiled, its accessible. Even though you would probably have to use a tool, technically it is accessible but I still see it as inaccessible. Their version of inaccessible is in the actual fabric of the building i.e. in the plaster or concrete. Again its just another person take on a certain thing.

Jay

 

[Silly Sausage]

Accessible to me means turning a handle or key, or undoing 2,3,or 4 screws at an accessory or piece of equipment.
Hidden under a floor or in wall is definitely not.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Accessible to me means turning a handle or key, or undoing 2,3,or 4 screws at an accessory or piece of equipment.
Hidden under a floor or in wall is definitely not.

This is my point Archy. This is your interpretation and mine but to others it may mean something different. It all depends on the individual. And its ok thinking I'm right, your wrong but its not that simple.

 

[D Skelton]

It's accessible to me unless encased in carbonite within in a concrete, steel and depleted uranium lined bunker with the doors triple welded shut!

My demo hammer makes light work of anything anyone on here deems 'inaccessible'!

Floorboards? Pah!
Plaster? Pah!
Brick? Pah!

"What's that Mrs Jones? Your last electrician said you had an inaccessible junction box somewhere within the property? Never fear, I'll get to work!!!!!"



"Found it!"

 

[ipf]

It's accessible to me unless encased in carbonite within in a concrete, steel and depleted uranium lined bunker with the doors triple welded shut!

My demo hammer makes light work of anything anyone on here deems 'inaccessible'!

Floorboards? Pah!
Plaster? Pah!
Brick? Pah!

"What's that Mrs Jones? Your last electrician said you had an inaccessible junction box somewhere within the property? Never fear, I'll get to work!!!!!"

View attachment 23395

"Found it!"

I think Damian and Mrs Jones have 'got a thing going on':musical_note:

 

[Silly Sausage]

This is my point Archy. This is your interpretation and mine but to others it may mean something different. It all depends on the individual. And its ok thinking I'm right, your wrong but its not that simple.

Just common sense, if it only takes < a minute or two max, and doesn't cause any excessive damage (as previous post ), it's accessible.
As for other regs, as before, just got to get that clarity of thought.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Just crimp it.

 

[Des 56]

Do you have an inaccessible junction box that needs inspection ?
Let Grittish Bass look after your world !

(No members of the public were harmed in the making of this picture)




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That's because,the householder was down the bank,she was dipping in to her life savings to pay Gritish bas for the inspection,
A spokesperson later stated "the junction box just had to be somewhere"