18th Edition cash cow for the IET

[Old Tiler 43192]

So the 18th edition is almost upon us, an event which is fast becoming a regular thing from the IET, either as a new edition or a new series of amendments.

I'm a member of the IET (or the IEE as it was), something that I used to be proud of but now find an embarrassment especially within the trade. The reason for that is because every few years the IET feels the need to generate more money for itself and so issues new amendments or a complete issue of BS7671.

And lets' face it, some of the changes haven't been worth while, e.g. harmonising section numbering with EU regulations, or the change of wiring colours to blue and brown ( why I don't know as I have no intention of taking my house to Europe)

As a minimum for the regulated, qualified, conscientious electrician, this means they have to buy from the IET new copies of BS7671, The On Site Guide, and which ever Guidance Notes are applicable to them; so costing £100's. Every now and then, a top up C&G course is also required.

I have over 30 years, on the job experience and I hold C&G 2381, 2381-20 (17th Upgrade) and 2391. Yet to comply with 18th I'm going to have to take a 3 day top up course costing £520 and with 3 days loss of earnings, and the books, I'll be close to £2,000 out of pocket.

I'm a self employed sole trader doing primarily domestic work; there's only so much you can pass on.

Apparently I have two years in which I need to get that qualification. well it's not going to happen, at that point I'm going to quit being an electrician. So though I say it myself, another competent, qualified, consciencous electrician driven out of business by yet more bureaucracy thereby making way for the unqualified, unregulated, cowboys to step in.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest as it bugs me so much (and as I was hoping to get into The Electricians Arms)

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I was talking about this with a fellow spark and he had the idea of all chipping in together for the digital / pdf versions of the books and then copying it and sharing that way, can just use it on a cheap tablet! not sure if the digital or pdf version will have security features or not but you can see why people are thinking like this given the cost.

 

[Baker1988]

I do agree with ya mate, i however have no intention of quiting and doing another job but i do agree that they are just pushing them out and they will probily just keep doing it every few years as they know we will have to buy there books and also take the courses as we have to have them to be able to join a scam sorry scheme.

Its all about the money its really good for them they are earning a fortune but for us we are looseing money.

 

[ipf]

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest as it bugs me so much (and as I was hoping to get into The Electricians Arms)

Well. you'll need to pay £100 and do the Arms course for that.

 

[Baker1988]

I was talking about this with a fellow spark and he had the idea of all chipping in together for the digital / pdf versions of the books and then copying it and sharing that way, can just use it on a cheap tablet! not sure if the digital or pdf version will have security features or not but you can see why people are thinking like this given the cost.

I am up for that if your serious about it, and even if they have security on it im sure i could remove it given enough time.

 

[Octopus]

The gravy train isn't just the IET, it's the scam s, the training providers, and the manufacturers with with vested interests .......

We are just on the receiving end .... Like mushrooms

 

[Rpa07]

Yet if any of us did go against it and, say refuse to be in a scam and just carry on certifying and giving to the customers only what they expect - ie the EIC EICR or MWC - no one would come after us. No one.
LABC don’t want anything to do with part P so they give it to the schemes to control.
Nothing would happen. Let’s do it - REVOLUTION!
Let’s have a cup of tea first though!

 

[Old Tiler 43192]

I was talking about this with a fellow spark and he had the idea of all chipping in together for the digital / pdf versions of the books and then copying it and sharing that way, can just use it on a cheap tablet! not sure if the digital or pdf version will have security features or not but you can see why people are thinking like this given the cost.

The way the digital books are supplied, you would have to licence the digital copy to e.g. a single laptop then share that one laptop around.

 

[Old Tiler 43192]

I do agree with ya mate, i however have no intention of quiting and doing another job but i do agree that they are just pushing them out and they will probily just keep doing it every few years as they know we will have to buy there books and also take the courses as we have to have them to be able to join a scam sorry scheme.

Its all about the money its really good for them they are earning a fortune but for us we are looseing money.

Thankfully, and you'll love this, about 5 years ago my wife had an affair with the married vicar. I kid you not. As a result, divorce, and my house was sold at a loss (my pension was in the house) and I was then going to have to work until i died. My pension plan was to be found dried up in someones loft.

I could picture the household eating breakfast around the table... "didn't we used to have an electrician?" ... "yes, he never came back for his money". That was my future.

But (silver lining) my solicitor then showed me a new business which I've since been doing since alongside my electrician business, that has enabled me to be semi-retired and it's that that I'll continue building and doing when I stop being a sparky.

So nice to have that alternative

 

[Midwest]

Let me know what that is

 

[Midwest]

Just been reading my latest Certsure Connections rag. Think I found dksanders cushty little deal;

£29 to attend 'Live South' event, where they will tell us all about the forthcoming 18th. Couple of pages further in, Certsure has been ranked 41st Sunday Times best company to work for, ohh and them offering bursary to female electricians. Further few pages, 'Out of this World' event, where NICEIC & Elecsa are holding an event at the Faraday Theatre London in July, which is being broadcast around the country to selected cinemas, to broadcast the far reaching changes of the 18th. The event is being promoted not only to contractors and electricians, but also architects, facility managers, local authorities and housing associations. Least they had the wisdom, to charge £5 entry fee, to cover their costs on hiring the theatre & cinemas.

Then there's the pages on about getting your copy of the 18th, for a knock down price of £85! I see where my £534 is going this year.

My fees are due at the end of the month, I'm not looking at renewing.

 

[hightower]

Drop me a message when the new edition comes out

 

[Octopus]

I've had an email from a wholesaler offering the 18th for £78.50

Anyone suggest a lower price offer

 

[Midwest]

Thing is, when Rick Steins latest cookbook been out for a while, you can get it for a £5. Why can't the IET offer some deals. Bet the 17th will still cost over £60 when the 18th is published.

 

[hightower]

Thing is, when Rick Steins latest cookbook been out for a while, you can get it for a £5. Why can't the IET offer some deals. Bet the 17th will still cost over £60 when the 18th is published.

Because doing so would then give the message "ah but don't buy it for the next 6 months because it's sure to be cheaper given time" and then you'd have a load of sparks still working off the 3rd edition while they wait for the 4th edition to be a fiver.

 

[Midwest]

Because doing so would then give the message "ah but don't buy it for the next 6 months because it's sure to be cheaper given time" and then you'd have a load of sparks still working off the 3rd edition while they wait for the 4th edition to be a fiver.

I think you're holding the IET in too much high esteem. I think they just need to make some quick bucks, after holding too many coffee mornings and coming up with ridiculous concepts, like everyone having an earth rod.

Its not as if its a good read.

 

[westward10]

About time we had a thread on the 18th Ed.

 

[Octopus]

About time we had a thread on the 18th Ed.

Hum ........... a pointless change of a few regs .............. costing us all time and MONEY

 

[buzzlightyear]

I've had an email from a wholesaler offering the 18th for £78.50

cant wait till they are on flee bay or amazon ,Chinese copied for £50 quid.

 

[Rpa07]

I got mine today at ELEX at Westpoint Exeter - here is a picture of it with IGOR my butler holding it for the camera!


Confirmed today that Earth Rods will not be a requirement for PME systems in the 18th because people from Inverness complained about the impossibility in their rock strewn ground so if everyone can’t do it no one will. We can thank Elecsa for arguing our side.

 

[westward10]

Hum ........... a pointless change of a few regs .............. costing us all time and MONEY

Roll on the 19th.

 

[Octopus]

Roll on the 19th.

Yup - will have given up by then............

Wonder what would happen if sparks by the thousands stuck 2 fingers up the IET and the schemes?

Its not as if many people actually give a txss about the regs.

 

[Percyprod]

Regs are basically voluntary, after all, who checks on it? Sure, if you go to the book the work is tested and reported on by the electrician or bc, but if I do some work on my house, who will know, unless there is a serious problem. You can buy all the gear at any diy store, no control there. And 90% of the time there is no problem. If it is done to the 17th edition, great, doesn't need to be tested by an expert, although it is always a good idea. The price of the regs is a rip off, even allowing for it being a relatively small market. I can buy an amateur radio book, a much smaller market, a much bigger book for a fraction of the price.

 

[Percyprod]

Regs are basically voluntary, after all, who checks on it? Sure, if you go to the book the work is tested and reported on by the electrician or bc, but if I do some work on my house, who will know, unless there is a serious problem. You can buy all the gear at any diy store, no control there. And 90% of the time there is no problem. If it is done to the 17th edition, great, doesn't need to be tested by an expert, although it is always a good idea. The price of the regs is a rip off, even allowing for it being a relatively small market. I can buy an amateur radio book, a much smaller market, a much bigger book for a fraction of the price.

 

[Percyprod]

Don't know why it's uploaded twice, sorry!

 

[Percyprod]

Don't know why it's uploaded twice, sorry!

 

[Colin33]

Yet if any of us did go against it and, say refuse to be in a scam and just carry on certifying and giving to the customers only what they expect - ie the EIC EICR or MWC - no one would come after us. No one.
LABC don’t want anything to do with part P so they give it to the schemes to control.
Nothing would happen. Let’s do it - REVOLUTION!
Let’s have a cup of tea first though!

I've never been part of any scam/scheme. And you're right, because no one has ever come after me! Most of my work has been single new builds and renovation projects where Building control are already involved. I say to them that I'm fully qualified, are they happy for me to do the work? They say, "can you certify your work?" I say, "yes of course". At the end of the job a copy of the certification goes in their folder and job done. Only once has a BC guy asked to see my quals which I duly showed him, along with insurance of course. I've never understood why so many people bother with the scams when there are obviously ways around the system. I've never heard of anyone being taken to court for not complying with Part P unless of course they've been found to be doing sub-standard or dangerous work. So, as long as you're qualified and competent, and work to the regs, then what's to worry about? Finish that tea and join the revolution!

 

[Midwest]

I've never been part of any scam/scheme. And you're right, because no one has ever come after me! Most of my work has been single new builds and renovation projects where Building control are already involved. I say to them that I'm fully qualified, are they happy for me to do the work? They say, "can you certify your work?" I say, "yes of course". At the end of the job a copy of the certification goes in their folder and job done. Only once has a BC guy asked to see my quals which I duly showed him, along with insurance of course. I've never understood why so many people bother with the scams when there are obviously ways around the system. I've never heard of anyone being taken to court for not complying with Part P unless of course they've been found to be doing sub-standard or dangerous work. So, as long as you're qualified and competent, and work to the regs, then what's to worry about? Finish that tea and join the revolution!

Of course your right, I've not heard of many electricians being prosecuted for not being in a scheme as you've mentioned.

However, it is a criminal offence, not complying with Building regs (Part P), and punishable with a fine up to £5000. It may also be possible that your clients are complicit in the offence, and could also be liable, 'With all building work, the owner of the property (or land) in question is ultimately responsible for complying with the relevant planning rules and building regulations (regardless of the need to apply for planning permission and/or building regulations approval or not)' (Planning Portal).

So if your not complying with Sect 3.1 Part P (England & Wales), you're a very naughty boy, and putting your clients at risk of prosecution. You may also be invalidating your insurance.

So however guiling it is, and it is, its the law. ​

 

[Midwest]

Let me know what that is

To be fair with OP, he offered to share his secret of job opportunity with me.

 

[happysteve]

Yet to comply with 18th I'm going to have to take a 3 day top up course costing £520 and with 3 days loss of earnings, and the books, I'll be close to £2,000 out of pocket.

Some training centres will be offering a 1-day top-up course for those who already have the 2382-15 qualification (i.e. the 17th Edition to the 3rd Amendment) and who are already up to speed with the current Regs. In the morning you just go through the changes, and sit the exam in the afternoon, for (e.g.) £225 including certificate fees and VAT.

It's not ideal, but it's a bit cheaper than £520, and you only lose a day's work.

 

[Colin33]

Of course your right, I've not heard of many electricians being prosecuted for not being in a scheme as you've mentioned.

However, it is a criminal offence, not complying with Building regs (Part P), and punishable with a fine up to £5000. It may also be possible that your clients are complicit in the offence, and could also be liable, 'With all building work, the owner of the property (or land) in question is ultimately responsible for complying with the relevant planning rules and building regulations (regardless of the need to apply for planning permission and/or building regulations approval or not)' (Planning Portal).

So if your not complying with Sect 3.1 Part P (England & Wales), you're a very naughty boy, and putting your clients at risk of prosecution. You may also be invalidating your insurance.

So however guiling it is, and it is, its the law. ​

I suppose the maximum fine for speeding is £2500, but I don't know anyone who's ever had to pay that. There's always that little element of risk but it makes life more exciting Looking at that particular wording it seems that the spark may not be liable at all, with all the onus on the client to comply?

 

[Marti]

for the digital / pdf versions of the books and ...

The what! Been chasing the IET for updates on this for months. Dylexia makes the processed tree version a bit of a challenge. Their grasping, money grabbing answer...I can pay a yearly fee of £100 to access the bloody thing on line. No £100 or no internet signal, no access.

Someone with money and time could probably challenge this in the courts under equal access. Me, gotta go to work to pay the IET extortion money.

 

[Marti]

for the digital / pdf versions of the books and ...

The what! Been chasing the IET for updates on this for months. Dylexia makes the processed tree version a bit of a challenge. Their grasping, money grabbing answer...I can pay a yearly fee of £100 to access the bloody thing on line. No £100 or no internet signal, no access.

Someone with money and time could probably challenge this in the courts under equal access. Me, gotta go to work to pay the IET extortion money.

 

[Percyprod]

Although it is against the law to not comply with part p etc, it is also against the law to use a mobile phone, eat or drink whilst driving, yet people do, and 90% of thr time get away with it. Mostly, it is not actually dangerous, but it could be. The consequences could be several people being killed or injured. Even if an electrical installation is dangerous, usua
Lt only one person is affected, still one to many. Same spplues to working on vehicles. How many people on here work on their cars or vans, yet have no qualifications to do so. Again could be very dangerous. Yet someone who asks for advice on here and may do a perfect job on a rewire is slated for not being qualified to do so.

 

[ashrow]

I don't think we should complain....
Plumbers charge so much more as they have to do various updates for their gas/oil etc and they get away with charging their day rate etc due to their over heads.
Us electricians need to start charging what the job is worth.
We have to pay the tax man from our profits but the books and training are running costs......so ie we have to pay someone so let it be us to improve what we offer.

 

[sparksfly]

I did approach the IET stand end of last year at a trade show and questioned why the 17th Amd 3, along with other relevant books, was not on discount as the 18th is 10 months away....reply..."We are not allowed to...sorry".

 

[MFS Electrical]

The way the digital books are supplied, you would have to licence the digital copy to e.g. a single laptop then share that one laptop around.

Compile a pdf of screenshots?

 

[MFS Electrical]

View attachment 41855 I got mine today at ELEX at Westpoint Exeter - here is a picture of it with IGOR my butler holding it for the camera!


Confirmed today that Earth Rods will not be a requirement for PME systems in the 18th because people from Inverness complained about the impossibility in their rock strewn ground so if everyone can’t do it no one will. We can thank Elecsa for arguing our side.

Is that the small print microscope version or just a very big hand

 

[Octopus]

I think ALL signed up scam members need to warn their scams that the 18th maybe an exam too far , and thus the scams will then be under threat

Somebody needs to speak up for us, and the scams / gravy train have absolutely no incentive to do this for us ......

 

[MFS Electrical]

I think ALL signed up scam members need to warn their scams that the 18th maybe an exam too far , and thus the scams will then be under threat

Somebody needs to speak up for us, and the scams / gravy train have absolutely no incentive to do this for us ......

Ive never actually heard of anyone failing an amendment update exam or edition update. Thinking it’s not really worth the paper it’s written on and doesn’t prove competency or even prove the person in question knows how to even use the regs books.