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Discuss A Couple of Quickies! in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

B

Barker

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Chaps and Chapesses

I am fitting a light into a loft as part of my NICEIC Assesment but just have a couple of issues that I am wondering about. So I was hoping that you Wise and Wonderful people Would be able to offer some advice.

1, Is there any ruling about how far from an enclosed water tank a light should be fitted. I have Scoured the big red book but cannot see anything that says it should be X distance apart.

2, The house is only two years old and is fitted with a split load MK board the Sockets are all RCD protected but the lighting and everything else is covered by MCB's, should i be fitting a RCBO?

Cheers Folks
 
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N

not clever

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
1, Is there any ruling about how far from an enclosed water tank a light should be fitted. I have Scoured the big red book but cannot see anything that says it should be X distance apart.
Just use common sense, no reg for this unless you go for "accessory appropriate for external influences" at a push.

2, The house is only two years old and is fitted with a split load MK board the Sockets are all RCD protected but the lighting and everything else is covered by MCB's, should i be fitting a RCBO?
I would, if you dont you'll get a revisit & dont be tempted to bang the lights onto the rcd side, becauser the assessor will just quote along the lines of "seperation of circuits with regard to rcd when it trips"
 
B

Barker

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Cheers Not Clever

Putting an RCBO in isn't notifiable is it?
 

andyb

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Arms
Esteemed
If you are running your cable on the surface which as it's in the loft space I suspect it is, there is no need for an rcbo.
You are only responsible for your work from where you extend the circuit.
So, as long as there is adequate circuit protection and the Zs is below max you are ok.
Dont forget all your other checks.
 
S

Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
If you are running your cable on the surface which as it's in the loft space I suspect it is, there is no need for an rcbo.
You are only responsible for your work from where you extend the circuit.
So, as long as there is adequate circuit protection and the Zs is below max you are ok.
Dont forget all your other checks.
Whilst i agree 100% with Andy, there is a big debate at the moment about this.

Any circuit that is extended or modified MUST now be RCD protected.

There is a link somewhere but im having trouble finding it.

Ill post it when/if i manage to find it.:)
 
J

johnnyb

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Yeh, agree lighting rcd protected, but if you think the guy will have an issue with the fitting, install an IP rated fitting, covers you always up then, + rcd somewhere suggest an FCU .
 

andyb

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Arms
Esteemed
Whilst i agree 100% with Andy, there is a big debate at the moment about this.

Any circuit that is extended or modified MUST now be RCD protected.

There is a link somewhere but im having trouble finding it.

Ill post it when/if i manage to find it.:)
I agree that there is a debate Jason, but I have yet to read anything that convinces me of the need to fit an rcd retrospectivly.
This is only my take on it and if anyone can post a link showing otherwise I would be grateful.

You are responsible for your wiring. If this is surface and does not run in a room containing a bath or shower then there is no requirement for rcd protection.
 
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N

not clever

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Whilst i agree 100% with Andy, there is a big debate at the moment about this.

Any circuit that is extended or modified MUST now be RCD protected.

There is a link somewhere but im having trouble finding it.

Ill post it when/if i manage to find it.:)
I saw the same link so gave NICey technical desk a call as I was unsure & they confirmed you now change a circuit you should rcd the whole circuit if not already done.
Cant think where I saw it now, will try to find it after putting kids to bed.
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
Advent Win
There's an article in 'Wiring Matters' magazine from the IET which covers exactly this (Spring 09 issue 7). Yep, it says the whole circuit must comply, not just the addition. interesting reading. Daz
 
S

Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
There's an article in 'Wiring Matters' magazine from the IET which covers exactly this (Spring 09 issue 7). Yep, it says the whole circuit must comply, not just the addition. interesting reading. Daz
Cheers for that.

I knew i had seen it somewhere!!!!!!!!!!

Ill get me coat...

:D
 

andyb

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Arms
Esteemed
Can someone post a link or copy the main points of the article to this thread please.

My interpretation is based on an niceic seminar in December on the 17th edition, their head of training gave the main presentation and he was adamant that you do not need to fit an rcd in this situation.

It created quite a discussion after in the Q&A section, there was a couple of technical help line chaps there who agreed.

Now I know from the 15th then 16th that the interpretation of the regs change, but this was only 3 months ago and I would like to see any relevant article.
 
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andyb

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Arms
Esteemed
Having spoken to the niceic tech line yesterday he pointed me in the direction of a couple or regs.

131.8 It must be ascertained that the rating and condition of existing equipment is adequate for the altered circumstances.

610.4 Deals with the alteration only and basically say it should comply with the regs.

So his take was that this instance did not require rcd protection.

As I said in an earlier post all other conditions must allow this, but as it is a loft, as long as the cable is not taken through a joist and reg 522.6.5 is adhered to I do not think an rcd is needed.

That’s not to say that you should not fit one, it does no harm. But it is not required by the regs.
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Hey chaps.

I found a link to a PDF of the issue of Wiring Matters in question.

Click on the link, and then "start download" then "open" to view.

Cheers.

Additions and alterations.pdf
 
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andyb

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Arms
Esteemed
Thanks for that link Lenny.
I'm not sure that it's conclusive, I'll have to read it again.
The scenario he puts forward would need rcd protection anyway 411.3.3
I think it boils down to the interpretation 131.8 and if that requires the existing circuit to be brought up to date.
 
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