Anyone got a digital copy of codebreakers

[Julie.]

If you are competent then Guides are not required, if you are not competent then step away. ....

So any electrician with the on-site guide.
Any electrician who refers to any of the available guidance notes (gn3, 8, whatever).

Should they step away?

Guides are a very useful resource, yes they can be misused, but overall I would prefer that we end up with more consistency in reports and overall installations via having them available and used wisely

 

[westward10]

I agree but Guidance Notes 1 to 8, not the On Site Guide which I have never possessed expand on BS7671. Codebreakers merely encourages people to undertake works to which they are not competent, to me this is dangerous as they are not likely to compile a Report in the best interests of the client.

 

[Grant1987]

If you are competent then Guides are not required, if you are not competent then step away. There is no requirement to quote Regulation numbers they mean nothing to the client who receives the Report.

I am the worlds worst for regulation numbers but through experience I know what is right and wrong and borderline which is where we all debate on certain matters I’m an advocate for upgrades which I know many on here don’t agree with. It goes back to my previous post of learning and expanding knowledge from More experienced electricians.

 

[Julie.]

I agree but Guidance Notes 1 to 8, not the On Site Guide which I have never possessed expand on BS7671. Codebreakers merely encourages people to undertake works to which they are not competent, to me this is dangerous as they are not likely to compile a Report in the best interests of the client.

We're going round in circles, but misuse by those inclined to do so doesn't mean the resource is inappropriate.

And as for doing a report that's not in the best interest of a client, that's not the exclusive preserve of people using codebreakers, on the contrary so many are going against codebreakers and the safety first resources with regard to cowboy cu changes.

I actually think eicrs shouldn't be open to general electricians, I think there should be a specific testing qualification for it, - just like many other areas in other fields of work, you must have considerable experience and knowledge, and participate in knowledge and standards sharing.

As an inspector, you should attend courses/meetings where collectively appropriate guidelines are agreed and understood.

For example become a garage mechanic, and you can't automatically do mot's, it requires further training and continuous development to maintain a consistent standard as much as practical

I know this won't be popular, but it will be an improvement on the mess that happens now

 

[westward10]

Problem is many of these people who carry out EICRs do have testing qualifications but totally lack knowledge or experience.

 

[Grant1987]

We're going round in circles, but misuse by those inclined to do so doesn't mean the resource is inappropriate.

And as for doing a report that's not in the best interest of a client, that's not the exclusive preserve of people using codebreakers, on the contrary so many are going against codebreakers and the safety first resources with regard to cowboy cu changes.

I actually think eicrs shouldn't be open to general electricians, I think there should be a specific testing qualification for it, - just like many other areas in other fields of work, you must have considerable experience and knowledge, and participate in knowledge and standards sharing.

As an inspector, you should attend courses/meetings where collectively appropriate guidelines are agreed and understood.

I know this won't be popular, but it will be an improvement on the mess that happens now

I do agree with what you’re saying because we all differentiate from what’s acceptable and what’s not. I think you’re view of general electrician is a bit borderline what is a general electrician? Lol

 

[Julie.]

I do agree with what you’re saying because we all differentiate from what’s acceptable and what’s not. I think you’re view of general electrician is a bit borderline what is a general electrician? Lol

One with this on their overalls:


(I do hope it's right i just nicked the image)

 

[Grant1987]

One with this on their overalls:
View attachment 60755

(I do hope it's right i just nicked the image)

It’s not got the 3 feathers or the dragon on there so non compliant C1 that ??
[automerge]1599854777[/automerge]

It’s not got the 3 feathers or the dragon on there so non compliant C1 that ??

There’s a song over here saying where you can stick you’re chariot! ?

 

[Julie.]

Problem is many of these people who carry out EICRs do have testing qualifications but totally lack knowledge or experience.

Agreed, I think obtaining an eicr type qualification should have much stricter entry criteria, it isn't like commissioning a new installation

 

[Grant1987]

It’s not got the 3 feathers or the dragon on there so non compliant C1 that ??
[automerge]1599854777[/automerge]

There’s a song over here saying where you can stick you’re chariot! ?

My apologies just realised you’re Scottish?
[automerge]1599855258[/automerge]

Agreed, I think obtaining an eicr type qualification should have much stricter entry criteria, it isn't like commissioning a new installation

Commissioning a new install where they have connected the new kitchen ring/cooker/shower circuit into old consumer ?‍ Needs to be upgraded

 

[Julie.]

My apologies just realised you’re Scottish?
[automerge]1599855258[/automerge]

Commissioning a new install where they have connected the new kitchen ring/cooker/shower circuit into old consumer ?‍ Needs to be upgraded

Nope English, I came up here to see how the heathens go on.......

 

[Grant1987]

Nope English, I came up here to see how the heathens go on.......

Great, I stick by my previous post then of where you can stick you’re Chariot
[automerge]1599856712[/automerge]

Great, I stick by my previous post then of where you can stick you’re Chariot

??

 

[Zerax]

Problem is many of these people who carry out EICRs do have testing qualifications but totally lack knowledge or experience.

The problem is more to do with the testing qualification itself... the standard/level of 2391 needs to be dramatically increased.

 

[Grant1987]

The problem is more to do with the testing qualification itself... the standard/level of 2391 needs to be dramatically increased.

It’s changed from 2391 then 2394/2395 then back to 2391 there’s no consistency there is nothing in black and white that makes my opinion wrong and your opinion right in terms of certain regulations we all interpret the regs in different ways and infact the regs and guides that go along with it all combat eachother there is no clear answer due to the difference of jobs it’s hard to manage but could do with a get together like Julie said and we all voice our opinion

 

[westward10]

The problem is more to do with the testing qualification itself... the standard/level of 2391 needs to be dramatically increased.

Problem it that is a class based "qualification", something which cannot be fully attained without practical experience in the field.

 

[Zerax]

For me... the key is consistency. We need to get to the stage where 4 out of 5 sparks doing the same EICR will come up with the same report. Not where 5 highly experienced sparks each produce a different report because each will have his own opinion on what he thinks is safe etc. And to come back the original topic, having a list of 'issues' with guidance on how to code them is a step in the right direction.

 

[westward10]

For me... the key is consistency. We need to get to the stage where 4 out of 5 sparks doing the same EICR will come up with the same report. Not where 5 highly experienced sparks each produce a different report because each will have his own opinion on what he thinks is safe etc. And to come back the original topic, having a list of 'issues' with guidance on how to code them is a step in the right direction.

It is a dangerous step in the wrong direction whereby the uninitiated refer to an unqualified Guide to coax them into decision of the blind leading the blind.

 

[Zerax]

It is a dangerous step in the wrong direction whereby the uninitiated refer to an unqualified Guide to coax them into decision of the blind leading the blind.

I can see where you're coming from...

I think we're all agreed that the 'Codebreakers' book is not perfect and there are many things that should be amended... it's a good start though and should be constantly improved.

Without a guide, you'll have the situation we have now... totally different opinions, giving totally different EICRs. We should make the reports more 'objective' and less 'subjective'.

 

[Grant1987]

For me... the key is consistency. We need to get to the stage where 4 out of 5 sparks doing the same EICR will come up with the same report. Not where 5 highly experienced sparks each produce a different report because each will have his own opinion on what he thinks is safe etc. And to come back the original topic, having a list of 'issues' with guidance on how to code them is a step in the right direction.

That is the answer we have a hundred maybe a thousand sparks who are all conducting an EICR on exactly same property and then let the maths do the talking so it won’t discriminate against experienced, inexperienced young, old, fast, slow, incompetent, competent another factor should be fault finding all with the same fault not an easy one which joe bloggs could guess and get it right but one which requires insulation resistance testing we definitely need a shake up

 

[Zerax]

That is the answer we have a hundred maybe a thousand sparks who are all conducting an EICR on exactly same property and then let the maths do the talking so it won’t discriminate against experienced, inexperienced young, old, fast, slow, incompetent, competent another factor should be fault finding all with the same fault not an easy one which joe bloggs could guess and get it right but one which requires insulation resistance testing we definitely need a shake up

Is your fullstop key not working ? I run out of breath reading your posts...