Assistance with my installation

[davesparks]

Because a diyer/trainee reading that statement may well believe that they can export pme to any outbuilding without any special requirements, which isn't true.

They, or anyone else, cannot 'export' PME to any outbuilding. They can however extend an PME equipotential zone to any outbuilding (except those falling under specific circumstances)

 

[mainline]

They, or anyone else, cannot 'export' PME to any outbuilding. They can however extend an PME equipotential zone to any outbuilding (except those falling under specific circumstances)

There’s no regulation that says you can’t export a PME earth to another building.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

There’s no regulation that says you can’t export a PME earth to another building.

I think a lot of the confusion surrounding this comes from the word 'export'. It only crops up in these conversations, and doesn't seem to exist in any set of regulations that I'm aware of.

What does it mean? Does it mean extending the separated earth, from the MET, to the outbuilding (generally acceptable), or does it mean extending the combined neutral/earth to the outbuilding (not acceptable)? DNOs almost certainly will tell you that you can't do the latter.

 

[pc1966]

What is of interest is whether there is selectivity between the two RCDs. Why is there a 100mA upfront on a TN-C-S?

I was wondering about that.

Certainly you could use a 100mA delay RCD along with something like a 50A D-curve MCB to get better selectivity with down-stream OCPD based faults and/or still meeting disconnection times on the higher resistance SWA armour to save cost going 3C.

I suspect it might just have been TT originally and in recent years the DNO made it TN-C-S?

 

[Dartlec]

how many faults per year on pme lost neutral very little the power lines are monitored ,you have got more chances of being kissed on the lips of a giraffe .

I'd like to know this too - wonder if anyone has collated such events via FOI request or similar. Since it is regularly raised as a potential risk in guides etc, I'd like to know just how often it happens so that I can make a well informed risk assessment on certain types of job.

(For avoidance of doubt, I'm talking about faults on PME, not being kissed by a giraffe )

 

[davesparks]

There’s no regulation that says you can’t export a PME earth to another building.

No there isn't, however there is the definition of the word 'export'

 

[timhoward]

I'd like to know this too - wonder if anyone has collated such events via FOI request or similar. Since it is regularly raised as a potential risk in guides etc, I'd like to know just how often it happens so that I can make a well informed risk assessment on certain types of job.

Available data getting a bit old now....

Interestingly someone tried an FOI request in Nov 2021 and HSE never responded, leading to the ICO upholding a complaint.
I can't find the results though.

 

[mainline]

No there isn't, however there is the definition of the word 'export'

I think that it has to be a given in that “Export to an outbuilding” means beyond the building and its equipotential zone.

 

[default]

I looked at a few of these posts then skipped to the end. Take no notice of the majority of these as they just seem as though they like to argue rather than knowing what there doing. Exporting a TNCS is fine as long as you can prove and are happy it's OK. A 100mA RCD can trip before the 30mA at x5, it shouldn't but it can. To stop this you can install a separate isolator at the mains so it doesn't come from the board in the house then run the SWA to the shed from that. Your running a sub main not a finale circuit so it does not need protecting by an RCD. If you still want the shed to be TT then terminate the SWA into a plastic adaptable box then run the correct sized earth from the stake to the shed DB.

 

[mainline]

default said : " Take no notice of the majority of these as they just seem as though they like to argue rather than knowing what there doing. "

But do you know what you're doing? Because I think what you're suggesting wouldn't be compliant.

 

[default]

default said : " Take no notice of the majority of these as they just seem as though they like to argue rather than knowing what there doing. "

But do you know what you're doing? Because I think what you're suggesting wouldn't be compliant.

Explain why you think this.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The post in the beginning was referring to A TNcs in the main property, but TT to the outer building asking what should be.
Exporting a TNcs is fine has long has their is no extraneous metel work in the outer building and if so then a either bond back or TT it

 

[timhoward]

@default has the right kind of idea but the wording is a little suspect. Let me adjust it a bit:

To stop this you can install a separate isolator split the tails and used a suitably sized switched fuse at the mains so it doesn't come from the board in the house then run the SWA to the shed from that. Your running a sub main not a finale circuit As the SWA cable has an earthed metal covering it does not need protecting by an RCD for Impact Protection purposes, though may for fault protection.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I looked at a few of these posts then skipped to the end. Take no notice of the majority of these as they just seem as though they like to argue rather than knowing what there doing.

It's well worth having a read through of this thread in its entirety, there's some useful information here

 

[default]

The post in the beginning was referring to A TNcs in the main property, but TT to the outer building asking what should be.
Exporting a TNcs is fine has long has their is no extraneous metel work in the outer building and if so then a either bond back or TT it

You can still export a TNCS to a shed if there is metal work in it. This shed is not a special location.

 

[mainline]

Explain why you think this.

Tim at post #33

Exporting a PME earth isn't as simple as you suggest, as there will be a number of factors that have to be taken into account, depending on its use.
You wouldn't want to be running a 16mm 3 core swa to a customers wooden potting shed that is 2mtrs away, has no extraneous earths and has just one lighting point.

On the other hand, you wouldn't want to export to a cattle shed.

 

[default]

@default has the right kind of idea but the wording is a little suspect. Let me adjust it a bit:

Sorry should of Used specific language.

 

[default]

Pretty mouth at Post #34

Exporting a PME earth isn't as simple as you suggest, as there will be a number of factors that have to be taken into account, depending on its use.
You wouldn't want to be running a 16mm 3 core swa to a customers wooden potting shed that is 2mtrs away, has no extraneous earths and has just one lighting point.

The original post said nothing about specific factors. So unless it's a metal container, swimming pool, caravan or some other type of special location there are no regs saying it can not be exported.

 

[buzzlightyear]

You can still export a TNCS to a shed if there is metal work in it. This shed is not a special location

Read this might help.

 

[mainline]

Sorry should of Used specific language.

You will find that you have to be quite careful of the wording on this forum otherwise you get pounced on by the bully boys