Brave New World

[Adam W]

Like yourself I didn't start training until later in life. I was 25 so firms couldn't benefit from the same incentives as employing an apprentice, so I paid my own way through college. During the first year it was drummed into us that we'd need to get work in the industry ASAP so I got a list of NICEIC registered companies and wrote to all the ones which sounded most likely (excluding things like kitchen and bathroom fitters). I got nowhere so carried on working in the restaurant. At the end of the first year I got distinctions in all my exams and put an advert on Gumtree and was picked up by an agency for work as a mate, which helped a lot with the other 2 years at college.
Like many others on here I'd always recommend the local college route over distance learning training centres - firstly the training centres are in it for the money, and secondly the chances are the person you're applying for a job from will have gone to the same local college, so you've got a connection straight away.
It seems that if you want to work for a company on the cards jobbing around in a van you need to have contacts, which you can make through doing site work.

 

[basejumper31]

Thanks for explaining that Adam. I hear what you're saying there about the benefits of an evening college course and picking up agency / site work until you found a more permanent opportunity.

I wonder if there are any members on here who did manage to succeed via distance learning, and how they managed it? Or is distance learning just a pipe-dream, leading to qualifications with no real inroads into the industry?

I am on the cusp of enrolling in distance learning on a 2365 lvl 2, and if this is really not a viable route into employment, I'd be far better off finding out now, than further down the line.

Gotta say also, sincere thanks to everyone who has offered their feedback here. Without sounding too gushy, I feel lucky I live in an age where there are forums like this which, even ten years ago, probably didn't exist, and furthermore, people who are willing to take the time to offer advice to help people like me who are asking what must be questions many experienced types have heard a thousand times before.

 

[Adam W]

As others have suggested have a look around the forum for threads on training centres to see what the general feeling is about them - there are many stories of poor practical training, seemingly impossible health and safety tests and people not being able to secure genuine employment at the end. I'm sure you're already aware the people at the training centres have a financial incentive from selling the courses whereas most people here will just offer you honest advice.

You'll probably see the term 'Electrical Trainee' bandied around quite a lot - this refers to people who have done a short course which they usually fork out a lot of money for and tries to sell them the confidence to go it alone after just a few weeks in a training centre while in reality they don't know anything like as much as they should and end up out of their depth and out of pocket. 'Electrical Trainee' stands for '5 Week Wonder' in case you were wondering (see what I did there?); it's a slightly derogatory term which shows how those who took these courses are regarded in the industry.

Again, you might see threads where someone has started by asking a question and been shot down in flames and accused of attempting something they should be leaving to someone who knows what they're doing. These almost always end up with the person who asked the question getting upset and saying they thought an internet forum was supposed to be to give them the answers they need to do the job. I like to think the purpose of a forum is for a discussion and sharing of ideas, and the basics of how to do the job should be taught by a tutor in a college.

You seem willing to accept advice from those with more experience, and as such I would urge you to do your training 'properly' at your local college and not end up as a disenfranchised Electrical Trainee.

 

[basejumper31]

Thanks Adam.

Well, I've just spent a couple of hours reading threads on here, which I clearly should have done earlier (did quite a bit of reading on the net in general, but not on forums.. anyway..), and, well, I think I now have a much better grasp of the difference between any kind of distance learning, or even on-site college based learning, if it isn't accompanied at some stage at least, by on-the-job experience. Which, it seems, is the crucial thing.

At this point distance learning seems pointless, and I'm not gunna lie, I am feeling pretty despondent right now, yes I was promised great prospects after a couple of years distance learning by salespeople from distance learning centres, and I'm just glad that I didn't enrol right away (I was very close).

Does Electrical Trainee still apply to people who distance learn for longer periods of time? Some training providers I spoke to said quite frankly it would take me the best part of 2 years study, plus workshops etc etc to get anywhere near being ready to get into the field, and were also honest about the difficulty of getting work placements, and said how important it was.

I face the sobering prospect of finding a different job so I can, in 5 months time when they begin, hopefully enrol for an evening course at a college (my current job wouldn't enable me to do it because I work 24/7 for three weeks in a row). this also means I need to find somewhere to live because my current job is live-in (I am not going to live with my parents, because they're alcoholics, and I'll do anything before I go down that slope) and somehow still save money for the college course when it begins. I ask myself what I'm going to do in these 5 months while I'm waiting for the next college course to start. I guess volunteer a significant amount of my free time to see if an electrician will let me shadow him (at least I have a friend I can ask in that regard) and just start from the beginning, where everyone starts.

And before someone says "you feel despondent now, wait till you've been trying to get a work placement for a year straight with no success" or whatever, this doesn't mean I'm giving up, on the contrary, I am determined to do this, I know I've got the smarts and I'm not afraid of honest hard work and tenacity. Where there is a will, there is, eventually, a way. But I do feel like I was sold a load of tosh by various training providers. Yeah so maybe a handful of their students went on to find work and didn't blow themselves up or set a house on fire, and gradually gained experience, but from what I can gather, it seems like they are the minority exception, not the rule. Maybe the government should make these companies offering these Electrical Trainee schemes publish statistics on how many of their graduated students are working in the field 1,3, 5 years after completing the courses they offer. Mind you they'd probably still find ways to fudge the stats on that. I guess I should feel lucky I didn't hand them a bunch of cash, I very nearly did.

 

[jaypp]

Thanks for explaining that Adam. I hear what you're saying there about the benefits of an evening college course and picking up agency / site work until you found a more permanent opportunity.

I wonder if there are any members on here who did manage to succeed via distance learning, and how they managed it? Or is distance learning just a pipe-dream, leading to qualifications with no real inroads into the industry?

I am on the cusp of enrolling in distance learning on a 2365 lvl 2, and if this is really not a viable route into employment, I'd be far better off finding out now, than further down the line.

Gotta say also, sincere thanks to everyone who has offered their feedback here. Without sounding too gushy, I feel lucky I live in an age where there are forums like this which, even ten years ago, probably didn't exist, and furthermore, people who are willing to take the time to offer advice to help people like me who are asking what must be questions many experienced types have heard a thousand times before.

Hi basej, I believe there must be, but surely they wouldn't have qualified, set up on their own and had their diary fully booked? There has to be some sacrifice, as Adam points out. If your goal is to be a sparks, it must be either financial/a key to open a locked door (eg emigrating)/freedom related and therefore, will usually involve going backwards first. I took a 30% pay cut on the days/weeks I did whilst returning, am in a similar position 'as was' (although with less freedom), and am still working towards my goal.
You've earnt the advice/time given because of your questions, replies and 'manner', although like most of us, I get the impression you've decided what you want to do regardless!!! At least you won't get 'ripped off' for 6k!!!.

 

[jaypp]

Thanks Adam.

Well, I've just spent a couple of hours reading threads on here, which I clearly should have done earlier (did quite a bit of reading on the net in general, but not on forums.. anyway..), and, well, I think I now have a much better grasp of the difference between any kind of distance learning, or even on-site college based learning, if it isn't accompanied at some stage at least, by on-the-job experience. Which, it seems, is the crucial thing.

At this point distance learning seems pointless, and I'm not gunna lie, I am feeling pretty despondent right now, yes I was promised great prospects after a couple of years distance learning by salespeople from distance learning centres, and I'm just glad that I didn't enrol right away (I was very close).

Does Electrical Trainee still apply to people who distance learn for longer periods of time? Some training providers I spoke to said quite frankly it would take me the best part of 2 years study, plus workshops etc etc to get anywhere near being ready to get into the field, and were also honest about the difficulty of getting work placements, and said how important it was.

I face the sobering prospect of finding a different job so I can, in 5 months time when they begin, hopefully enrol for an evening course at a college (my current job wouldn't enable me to do it because I work 24/7 for three weeks in a row). this also means I need to find somewhere to live because my current job is live-in (I am not going to live with my parents, because they're alcoholics, and I'll do anything before I go down that slope) and somehow still save money for the college course when it begins. I ask myself what I'm going to do in these 5 months while I'm waiting for the next college course to start. I guess volunteer a significant amount of my free time to see if an electrician will let me shadow him (at least I have a friend I can ask in that regard) and just start from the beginning, where everyone starts.

And before someone says "you feel despondent now, wait till you've been trying to get a work placement for a year straight with no success" or whatever, this doesn't mean I'm giving up, on the contrary, I am determined to do this, I know I've got the smarts and I'm not afraid of honest hard work and tenacity. Where there is a will, there is, eventually, a way. But I do feel like I was sold a load of tosh by various training providers. Yeah so maybe a handful of their students went on to find work and didn't blow themselves up or set a house on fire, and gradually gained experience, but from what I can gather, it seems like they are the minority exception, not the rule. Maybe the government should make these companies offering these Electrical Trainee schemes publish statistics on how many of their graduated students are working in the field 1,3, 5 years after completing the courses they offer. Mind you they'd probably still find ways to fudge the stats on that. I guess I should feel lucky I didn't hand them a bunch of cash, I very nearly did.

Well sir, I stand corrected re previous post. You've made the time I've spent on this, and a couple of similar ones, worthwhile (not being gushy either!!).
With your attitude and ability to ask advice/research, then evaluate, you'll go far. Good luck.

one last thing, if something (anything) is so good, why does it need to be 'sold' to get people to buy it?

 

[Richard Burns]

I am sorry that you have had to make the choice not to proceed.

I would say that gaining the 2365 should not make you a Electrical Trainee; you will have done the correct educational training.
Doing the course by distance learning may be more difficult to do because of the lack of close discussion. It not be the preferred route and have slightly less cachet than a college course, but the education would be the same, it is only on the practical side that you may find yourself struggling.
To have completed the 2365 and NVQ3 over several years by whatever means would be being correctly qualified.

Good luck with your future plans and I hope it goes well for you.
It is a pity that there are the low grade trainers out there that have caused you this heartache and confusion..
Your determination will pull you through!

 

[basejumper31]

So.

Taking on board everything I've read and people's responses here, I've arrived at a plan for getting into the trade, and am wondering what people think about this.

Basically, because it's 5 months until the next college course starts, I plan to start studying my 2365 lvl 2 via distance learning (most reasonable price I have come across so far is just shy of £2k, but I'll do some more research before enrolling to find a good balance of price and support) and, having been in touch with my friend who is a practicing, qualified electrician (he qualified 6 years ago) he says he's more than happy for me to shadow him for about ten days per month, which is what my current work situation allows.

Then, come July / Aug, I will hand in my notice in my current job as a live-in carer, and, as Adam W mentioned on page 2 of this thread, basically pick up part-time work as a waiter/bar staff or whatever, and enroll with my local college for the lvl 3 NVQ, continue shadowing my friend as much as possible, and hunt for opportunities to get paid work (however feeble the pay may be) as an electrician's mate. With any luck (and persistence) I am hopeful that I'll find work in the trade, so that by the time I need to start signing off the practical aspects of the NVQ, I'll be able to do that.

From what Richard says above, hopefully I won't be viewed as a Electrical Trainee, but as someone who is incrementally working towards having the requisite experience and training to eventually be properly qualified and able to seek employment as an electrician in my own right (one day!). I know there will be further training I'll need to do after the NVQ, like the 17th edition etc, but I'll cross those bridges when I get there. That's my plan anyway.

jaypp - you say you made the sacrifices, took a significant pay cut, and are now in a similar position as you were before (what do you mean by this? earning what you were before you took the pay cut?) working towards your goal. Props! I wonder if you'd care to elaborate a bit, in terms of how long you've been training and practicing for?

Cheers guys. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend

wondering if I should start a new thread too, this one is getting a bit long.

 

[Richard Burns]

Good plan, you can see how the course goes with distance learning if it is going well then you might be able to stay on for the lvl 3, but it would depend on whether you spend another £2k or whether it is cheaper to do it for £700 and find temporary work.
Glad you have spoken to your friend and all sounds good from that side, that is probably the hardest part to get into initially.:rockon2:

 

[basejumper31]

Richard where do you get the figure of £700 from? The only price I've been quoted so far for the 2365 lvl 3 NVQ was, as you say, £2k.

 

[jaypp]

So.

Taking on board everything I've read and people's responses here, I've arrived at a plan for getting into the trade, and am wondering what people think about this.

Basically, because it's 5 months until the next college course starts, I plan to start studying my 2365 lvl 2 via distance learning (most reasonable price I have come across so far is just shy of £2k, but I'll do some more research before enrolling to find a good balance of price and support) and, having been in touch with my friend who is a practicing, qualified electrician (he qualified 6 years ago) he says he's more than happy for me to shadow him for about ten days per month, which is what my current work situation allows.

Then, come July / Aug, I will hand in my notice in my current job as a live-in carer, and, as Adam W mentioned on page 2 of this thread, basically pick up part-time work as a waiter/bar staff or whatever, and enroll with my local college for the lvl 3 NVQ, continue shadowing my friend as much as possible, and hunt for opportunities to get paid work (however feeble the pay may be) as an electrician's mate. With any luck (and persistence) I am hopeful that I'll find work in the trade, so that by the time I need to start signing off the practical aspects of the NVQ, I'll be able to do that.

From what Richard says above, hopefully I won't be viewed as a Electrical Trainee, but as someone who is incrementally working towards having the requisite experience and training to eventually be properly qualified and able to seek employment as an electrician in my own right (one day!). I know there will be further training I'll need to do after the NVQ, like the 17th edition etc, but I'll cross those bridges when I get there. That's my plan anyway.

jaypp - you say you made the sacrifices, took a significant pay cut, and are now in a similar position as you were before (what do you mean by this? earning what you were before you took the pay cut?) working towards your goal. Props! I wonder if you'd care to elaborate a bit, in terms of how long you've been training and practicing for?

Cheers guys. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend

wondering if I should start a new thread too, this one is getting a bit long.

hi basej, i'll send you a pm over the weekend regarding this as it's all based on my personal situation, and it'll be an essay!, cheers

 

[Richard Burns]

Sorry the £700 is just an oft quoted price, but I think the funding rules have changed now but some colleges may still be doing this.