City & Guilds 2392 Practical Exam

[chris-leeds]

Hi. By trade I'm a qualified mechanical maintenance engineer with 30 years experience and recently I've been trying to diversify in order to gain not only new, but continual employment.

Over the last couple of years I've passed the nebosh health & safety qualification, the city & guilds 2377 pat testing qualification and recently the city & guilds 2382 17th edition qualification. This week I took the city & guilds 2392 inspection & testing examination after completing the course. I passed the online Gola exam but failed miserably with the practical. I'm annoyed at failing the practical exam, but not as annoyed as I am at what is happening in this country when it comes to securing employment.

These days to be a mechanical maintenance engineer you have to be all things to everybody. You're required to have qualifications and experience of much more than was required of you 20 or 30 years ago. People like myself in their late 40's are having to go out and learn new skills and obtain diverse qualifications or resign themselves to the scrap heap. Gone are the days when we all stuck to our own disciplines, we’re now expected to be multi-skilled, work overtime for single time pay and be on 24 hour call out.

It's not surprising that I failed the 2392 practical because as to date, I have pretty much no knowledge of electrical installations, yet I've taken a course that covers testing your own installations, I'm the first to question the logic in that, but I don't have the time to go on a 2330 course and there are limited options available to people like myself at this time of life with regards to learning new skills.

I know that in a factory environment like I'm used to there is very little need for single phase domestic qualifications, but I guess they're better than none.

I'm determined to pass the 2392 practical exam and then consider scrambling my brain with the 2391 course if I have to. The Part P course is an option I guess, but the cost of that has jumped up at some places to around a £1000 and I don't know how much that course would benefit me. If anyone can advise me it would be much appreciated.

I've even recently completed a night class welding course as well for what it's worth.

I don't think that there are many more courses to be had, and with all those qualifications they aren't worth much without the experience, a kind of chicken and egg situation. I've been considering looking for work as an electricians mate, but I have to question the wisdom of that move for someone in their 40's.

.... Is there anything out there such as a step by step guide to the testing sequence in detail of the 2392 practical exam? Written as if you were talking someone through it... I think the best description is a crib list? Any help would be much appreciated.

Experienced sparks needn't worry that I'm going to let myself loose out there, all I'm hoping for is extra qualifications to secure a job. I’m the first to agree with the requirements of the terms skilled, instructed, an ordinary person.

I am considering out of desperation becoming a freelance health & safety officer and the electrical qualifications would help me to pass comment on some aspects of visited companies’ electrical testing & inspection compliance, which is something I’m guessing not many H&S inspectors have.

Thanks for reading. And best of luck with your employment.

 

[SMB]

Guidance Note 3 might be worth a read ?

 

[john25]

I've got my 2392 Practical exam tomorrow mate

here is the tests that you will need to do

SAFE ISOLATION Procedure Identify and secure the Isolation (you wont need to lock it off with a padlock as you can see the Isolation point) then Prove the Voltage indicator on the proving unit and then test the circuit (L-N L-E N-E) then re-prove the tester on the proving unit.

1.Continuity of Protective conductors (Bonding not needed as it's visible on the rig) Basically connect L-CPC of each circuit in the CCU in a Connector Block and then test between L-CPC at every socket outlet on the circuit with an open back plug and take the Highest reading (For lighting open up the Switches/Lighting points and test between the Switch LIVE and CPC)
Operate the Sockets & Switches to also prove the polarity

2.Ring Final test (End to End in the CCU for r1-r2 / L-N Figure of 8/L-CPC Figure of 8 for your R1-R2 result) and then test at each Socket outlet on the Ring and record the highest result which will be the Spur. Again operate the Socket switches to prove polarity

3.Insulation Resistance (Global test but im unsure whether the test is done on the Load or Supply side with the Main Switch on or off plz Advise ??? Leave all MCB's in the ON position
the test Voltage to be applied is 500V between both LIVE conductors and then between both LIVE conductors and Earth also operate the Light switches on a 2-way intermediate circuit.

4.Dead polarity (Which you would have already proven via the Continuity tests

LIVE tests Below

5.LIVE polarity (Again unsure whether you have to test both sides of the Main Switch with the Main switch on or off??? ( Prove with a Voltage indicator)

6. Earth Fault Loop impedance ( Isolate the supply and disconnect the Earthing conductor to avoid Parallel paths and set tester to the High loop setting and crocodile clip on the earth test lead and connect it to the Earthing conductor and then put the other test probe on the Line screw of the supply side of the main switch take a reading then re-connect the earthing conductor for the next tests

7. Prospective Fault current put the test meter on the PFC Setting and test between Line and Neutal on the Supply side of the main switch (PSCC) and then between the Line and Earth (PEFC) and then record the Highest result of the 2 as your (PFC)

7.RCD and Functional testing . (RCD set the test meter to RCD and then test @ 1/2 its rated current and then @ 1 times it's rated current were it will either trip at 200ms or 300ms depending on what BS number it is BS=200ms BS EN= 300 .Then press the 180o button and test again at 1 times it's rated current and record the highest result of the 2 tests .Then do the same tests @ 5 times and record the highest result of the 2 tests.

(Functional testing is self explanitory).

 

[malcolmsanford]

Treat yourself to this

Practical Guide to Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations: Conforms to 17th Edition IEE Wiring Regulations BS 7671:2008 and Part P of Building Regulations: Amazon.co.uk: Christopher Kitcher: Books

 

[john25]

I've got that book which im actually reading now along with GN3 for when I start the 2391 on Wednesday but while its a good book to read it has quite a few Spelling mistakes and some of the
pictures aren't really that clear in their instructions.

 

[SMB]

John and Chris, I wish you both luck.

Rather than reading 'Mills and Boon' before you go to sleep...start reading Guidance Note 3.

Its just a short story really. The plot isn't that complicated.




And we all lived happily after.


All the best.

 

[B6 7BU]

It's not surprising that I failed the 2392 practical because as to date, I have pretty much no knowledge of electrical installations, yet I've taken a course that covers testing your own installations, I'm the first to question the logic in that,

Where did you do the course? and long was it? and how much time was spent on the hands on part?

 

[john25]

Well I just passed the Practical this afternoon and TBH it was a doddle really, I didn't need any prompting during the Exam cause I knew the test sequences off by heart and I only made a couple of errors on the inspection Sheet and 1 on the second page of the EIC but other than that it was all good and all I can say to anyone taking this exam is to Pay attention in Class and Study hard.

 

[SMB]

Well done John.

Excellent.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Hi. By trade I'm a qualified mechanical maintenance engineer with 30 years experience and recently I've been trying to diversify in order to gain not only new, but continual employment.

Over the last couple of years I've passed the nebosh health & safety qualification, the city & guilds 2377 pat testing qualification and recently the city & guilds 2382 17th edition qualification. This week I took the city & guilds 2392 inspection & testing examination after completing the course. I passed the online Gola exam but failed miserably with the practical. I'm annoyed at failing the practical exam, but not as annoyed as I am at what is happening in this country when it comes to securing employment.

These days to be a mechanical maintenance engineer you have to be all things to everybody. You're required to have qualifications and experience of much more than was required of you 20 or 30 years ago. People like myself in their late 40's are having to go out and learn new skills and obtain diverse qualifications or resign themselves to the scrap heap. Gone are the days when we all stuck to our own disciplines, we’re now expected to be multi-skilled, work overtime for single time pay and be on 24 hour call out.

It's not surprising that I failed the 2392 practical because as to date, I have pretty much no knowledge of electrical installations, yet I've taken a course that covers testing your own installations, I'm the first to question the logic in that, but I don't have the time to go on a 2330 course and there are limited options available to people like myself at this time of life with regards to learning new skills.

I know that in a factory environment like I'm used to there is very little need for single phase domestic qualifications, but I guess they're better than none.

I'm determined to pass the 2392 practical exam and then consider scrambling my brain with the 2391 course if I have to. The Part P course is an option I guess, but the cost of that has jumped up at some places to around a £1000 and I don't know how much that course would benefit me. If anyone can advise me it would be much appreciated.

I've even recently completed a night class welding course as well for what it's worth.

I don't think that there are many more courses to be had, and with all those qualifications they aren't worth much without the experience, a kind of chicken and egg situation. I've been considering looking for work as an electricians mate, but I have to question the wisdom of that move for someone in their 40's.

.... Is there anything out there such as a step by step guide to the testing sequence in detail of the 2392 practical exam? Written as if you were talking someone through it... I think the best description is a crib list? Any help would be much appreciated.

Experienced sparks needn't worry that I'm going to let myself loose out there, all I'm hoping for is extra qualifications to secure a job. I’m the first to agree with the requirements of the terms skilled, instructed, an ordinary person.

I am considering out of desperation becoming a freelance health & safety officer and the electrical qualifications would help me to pass comment on some aspects of visited companies’ electrical testing & inspection compliance, which is something I’m guessing not many H&S inspectors have.

Thanks for reading. And best of luck with your employment.

The IEE guidance note 3 is a must, even for seasoned test and inspection engineers. Also it makes reference to the Regs book and on site guide, again a must if Electrical work is your chosen route. With regard to testing, there is no substitute for experience. Lay your hands on a 17th edition multifunction tester or hire one and following GN3 test your own house. Domestic testing is not rocket science, but you do need to practice and understand what and why you are doing it, what are the expected results, and what action to take or recommend when the results are out of spec. If you can get into a local sparky who can show you and let you have a go even better.
As you call yourself chris-leeds, i guess you are in Leeds, so am I and at the moment i am in the process of completing 27 PIR's.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[chris-leeds]

Many thanks for that John, that's a great help, much appreciated mate..

 

[chris-leeds]

Hi Howard, thanks for your reply. I'll see if I can get hold of the guidance note 3 book. On the course I used the city & Guilds and the niceic course book.

Yes I'm in leeds, albeit north leeds, wetherby as it happens. Glad to see your busy in these quiet times mate.

 

[B6 7BU]

How much time did you spend on the practical side in class before your exam?

 

[chris-leeds]

I did it at Wakefield Skill Centre. It was 4 days long, plus the exam There wasn't that much time spent on the hands-on. I was told that you were expected to be a sparky to go on the 2392 course in the first place. My response to that was that unfortunately it looks like the future lies within the re-training route for many mechanical engineers and it can be expected that more and more inexperienced people will be required to undertake further developement just to get a job. There was a 2 day electrical introduction course available, but had I gone on that, I wouldn't have had the finances available to go on the 2392, and I doubt that it would have made any difference to the outcome. I guess I need to study the practical routine until it's second nature and then get myself back on a re-sit.

I'm still in the process of finding work and 'multi-skilled' is the holy grail of getting a job these days. However, fluent in certain foreign languages is now creeping in, along with CRB checks etc. I'm not sure how much off these obstacles are due to all these agencies getting involved in employment? Back to my notes I guess....

 

[chris-leeds]

Nice one John, well done. I'm guessing it's the 2391 in the future?

 

[B6 7BU]

There wasn't that much time spent on the hands-on.

Thats a shame,we understand the inportance of the practical and tend to spend as much time as possible.

 

[john25]

Nice one John, well done. I'm guessing it's the 2391 in the future?

Starting the 2391 tomorrow mate. But good luck to you Just remember the testing procedure and you'll Fly through it.

EDIT 2 practicals we had before the Exam first one was were he showed us the tests and then we were let loose on the 2nd practical.

 

[eli]

in the 2392-10 exam , did you get any scenario questions. its mostly based either on a shower, cooker or heater scenario. thanks.

 

[chris-leeds]

Hi Eli,

The online Gola questions were kinda similar to the 17th Edition questions. There were some scenario type questions, but most were aimed at if you knew how to identify readings such as 'if a test instrument displays 200 meag ohms, the test being carried out is?' etc.

I'm back to the training centre for a practical day tomorrow. That's another £120. Then when I take the exam again, that's another £100. A lot of cash when your outa work...

 

[SMB]

As you call yourself chris-leeds, i guess you are in Leeds, so am I and at the moment i am in the process of completing 27 PIR's.

Cheers.........Howard

Chris-leeds.

Did you not follow the above up? It sounds like an invite to me. And now your spending all that money?

I may have misunderstood and got the wrong end of the stick, but judging on the above I would have gotten in touch with Howard.

All the best.

 

[eli]

I didnt answer this question as part of my 2392 practical..I can jus about remember it, i wasnt sure how to do it, any help would be appreacited..thanks

A consumer asked to install a heater in a conservatory.

3kw Heater
Length of Cable 25m

Design the circuit.

1. Cable Size =
2. Fuse Size =
3. R1 + R2 Value =
4. Zs Value =
5. Volt drop =
6. Maximum Demand =
7. PFC

Also, Rule of thumb, does it apply or not?

 

[wallicio]

I havent done the 2392-10 yet. But I am going on the course in June.

Had a look through me books and tried to work it out for you.
As I havent had any experience Im sure some of this will be wrong so if any is please feel free to correct.



1.Cable Size - 1.5MM (P131 OSG) 1.5mm can hold 16.5A. As 13.04A is Ib This is the cable I would use. (ref method B - Trunking)

2.Fuse Size - 16A Type B CB to BS EN 60898 (Can hold the Ib 13.04A)

3.R1+R2 - Less than or equal to if TN-C-S - 2.52 (Ze Max 0.35 +R1+R2 2.52 = Max Zs - 2.87)

4.Zs Value - 2.87 (P49 BS7671)

5.Volt Drop - VD= (mV/A/m) X Ib X L /1000
VD = 29 X 13.04 X 25 / 1000
VD = 9.45V

5% allowable for Power, as 5% is 11.5V and your VD is 9.45V the circuit is within safe parameters.


Max Demand - 13.04A (As I read it OSG p97 Table 1B-8 No diversity allowable?)

PFC - .657kA (230V/Ze 0.35)/1000



Wrong or Right this is the answer I would have given.

Wallicio

 

[malcolmsanford]

I havent done the 2392-10 yet. But I am going on the course in June.

Had a look through me books and tried to work it out for you.
As I havent had any experience Im sure some of this will be wrong so if any is please feel free to correct.



1.Cable Size - 1.5MM (P131 OSG) 1.5mm can hold 16.5A. As 13.04A is Ib This is the cable I would use. (ref method B - Trunking)

2.Fuse Size - 16A Type B CB to BS EN 60898 (Can hold the Ib 13.04A)

3.R1+R2 - Less than or equal to if TN-C-S - 2.52 (Ze Max 0.35 +R1+R2 2.52 = Max Zs - 2.87)

it's just asked for your R1 + R2 value so the earthing system is irrelvant ie TN or TT. If you chose 1.5/1.0 T + E then your R1 + R2 will be the resitivity of the cable from OSG Table 9A X length of the run X temp factor / 1000. So that is 30.20 X 25 x 1.2 / 1000 = 0.906 ohms

4.Zs Value - 2.87 (P49 BS7671)


5.Volt Drop - VD= (mV/A/m) X Ib X L /1000
VD = 29 X 13.04 X 25 / 1000
VD = 9.45V

5% allowable for Power, as 5% is 11.5V and your VD is 9.45V the circuit is within safe parameters.


Max Demand - 13.04A (As I read it OSG p97 Table 1B-8 No diversity allowable?)

PFC - .657kA (230V/Ze 0.35)/1000



Wrong or Right this is the answer I would have given.

Wallicio

I think he must have missed the Ze off the question as in an exam they would give you this, and not rely on your guessing the value for a TNC-S, which I assume you guessed as it don't mention it at all

 

[wallicio]

I went with the max value as your right it did not state and didnt know how to work out but thanks to you I do now.

Thankyou so much for a very usefull reply

Wallicio.
Happy days!