dealing with the DNO

[Gavin John Hyde]

Got a job lined up, the customer needs a new consumer unit and partial rewire as its a bit hit and miss and with joined circuits between both upstairs and downstairs ring circuits. and also the lighting circuit is just one rather than split into different floors. The consumer unit is a old rewireable wylex job.

There is no isolator and it is the old question of calling the DNO to de-energise so i can fit a double pole isolator. Western Power charge nearly double the cost of turning the supply on and off to fit the isolator themselves. On a good day the guy will wait whilst you do it and then put the fuse back in. just got to have the new tails and isolator ready to connect in once the supply is off.

On this job though they have asked for a picture of the service head as they have said given the age of some of the installs in local area they don't pull the fuse no more, they turn off / cut the supply outside and will often replace the whole service head now as its to dangerous for the engineers. They are sending somebody to now have a look before hand to decide what is safest. Either way they have 3-4 week lead in time to come pull the fuse or change the service head. so cant't do job until then

On the new equipment even though we are not supposed to, i am sure many of us have broken seals and pulled the fuse out. in no way do i condone it. we each have to assess the risk. but with the older stuff i would never risk it. you hear stories of them breaking apart and arcing; it just isn't worth risk.

My argument to them was if its so dangerous you might want to change the service head then why are you charging the customer for it... admittedly they are going to charge around £80 inc vat. which is there standard de-energising charge. Anybody have experience of this and possibly getting them to do this for nothing?

The service head by the way is a siemens job- the seal is even in one piece!. Customer thinks it has been in since house was built. (house is early 1960's, customer been there since 1976) Not seen one of these ones before though anybody guess its age?

 

[westward10]

Wonder if Pete fitted it?
I would put it at 1950s to 60s.

 

[mattg4321]

Looks like somebody has pulled it recently to fit a smart meter.

H&S overload here imo. Are they really going to turn off multiple properties just to fit an isolator!!!

 

[Pete999]

Wonder if Pete fitted it?
I would put it at 1950s to 60s.

You Cheeky Rascal you

 

[westward10]

Saw it was in Barf Pete.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Looks like somebody has pulled it recently to fit a smart meter.

H&S overload here imo. Are they really going to turn off multiple properties just to fit an isolator!!!

Well the western power engineer team phoned asked for the picture and then said they will have a engineer go to assess it as the street/ area is flagged as having problematic old kit apparently. and they have to risk assess jobs to protect the engineers and to send the right number!!

I did say to them that it appears somebody installed a smart meter in the not so distant past. they said that it could have been done by a 3rd party contractor and not themselves but that doesn't mean the fuse hasn't since deteriorated. they said if anything it makes it slightly more likely as its been pulled out and put back in.

Due to H & S it is apparently quite common for them to risk assess it and then decide if they are going to knock out the street to pull a fuse or change the head if need be.. all this for a little double pole isolator!

 

[Pete999]

Saw it was in Barf Pete.

Saw it was in Barf Pete.

That's Bath, or if you are from Bristol Baff

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

That's Bath, or if you are from Bristol Baff

Bath if you speak like a BBC newsreader Bath with double ff as in Baff if you are local and sound like a wurzul when you speak as i do. though in fairness my accent aint half as bad as the bristol accent.

 

[westward10]

If you originate from London, Barf

 

[Leesparkykent]

They don't turn off whole streets....They cut and joint live.

 

[mattg4321]

Surely the risks of doing a cut and joint outweigh those of pulling a fuse!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Surely the risks of doing a cut and joint outweigh those of pulling a fuse!

you would of thought so wouldn't you.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

They don't turn off whole streets....They cut and joint live.

which is what i thought they did too. might have something to do with the dno having a small substation in small little building at end of road by the pub. possibly didnt have it explained well to me when they rang. but surely it would be quicker and likely safer to pull the fuse and then only change the head if its knackered. but it keeps the indians busy whilst the chiefs think up h and s policies.

 

[davesparks]

Surely the risks of doing a cut and joint outweigh those of pulling a fuse!

That all depends on the condition of the cutout, some of the old ones are extremely dangerous to pull the fuse as the porcelain insulators are cracked/damaged so that they could collapse when disturbed and cause a massive arc flash to the cast iron cutout.

Cutting and jointing a live service cable follows a specific and safe system of work, where all variables are controlled as far as possible and far easier to control than doing anything to a cutout.

Also consider that the old cutouts are often in areas without clear access such as under-stairs cupboards, far better to be working on a live cable outside in a trench which is dug to the size you need.

 

[davesparks]

H&S overload here imo. Are they really going to turn off multiple properties just to fit an isolator!!!

no they normally won't turn off multiple properties just to fit an isolator, but that is not what is being discussed.
What is being discussed is turning off multiple properties in order to remove a piece of very old equipment which presents an appreciable risk of serious injury or death to someone working on it live.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Watching a dno operator jointing and moving a meter and thought to myself "I bet they think this is baby stuff when I work live"(which I never ever do. Ever.)

It was a breeze for him. He was there two hours, job done. Left us enough seal wire and crimps to seal when we put iso on(today)

 

[mattg4321]

That all depends on the condition of the cutout, some of the old ones are extremely dangerous to pull the fuse as the porcelain insulators are cracked/damaged so that they could collapse when disturbed and cause a massive arc flash to the cast iron cutout.

Cutting and jointing a live service cable follows a specific and safe system of work, where all variables are controlled as far as possible and far easier to control than doing anything to a cutout.

Also consider that the old cutouts are often in areas without clear access such as under-stairs cupboards, far better to be working on a live cable outside in a trench which is dug to the size you need.

Fair enough, maybe I'm a bit blind to the potential risks as I don't think I've seen a cutout that isn't either plastic or ceramic/porcelain for years. Probably getting on for 10 years now. Maybe other parts of the country have more in service. I wouldn't have a problem with pulling one if I had to.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Fair enough, maybe I'm a bit blind to the potential risks as I don't think I've seen a cutout that isn't either plastic or ceramic/porcelain for years. Probably getting on for 10 years now. Maybe other parts of the country have more in service. I wouldn't have a problem with pulling one if I had to.

Me personally 99% of the cut outs that.. fell out have been perfectly fine.

 

[davesparks]

Me personally 99% of the cut outs that.. fell out have been perfectly fine.

If only 1% of cutouts could kill you, does that mean only 1% of you dies?

 

[davesparks]

Fair enough, maybe I'm a bit blind to the potential risks as I don't think I've seen a cutout that isn't either plastic or ceramic/porcelain for years. Probably getting on for 10 years now. Maybe other parts of the country have more in service. I wouldn't have a problem with pulling one if I had to.

But you don't have to, an electrician never has to, and further to that is not allowed to.