Domestic installer path info please.....

[Scorrer11]

Hey guys,
after constantly annoying every tutor on my course to the point of them wanting to kill me i finally got the
head of electrical in today to speak to our class about the route we have to take to get to our destination.
so fair play to her she put it all out there and this is what we got(see attached photos) so i am now under
the impression this is my correct path:-

2365 level 2>
domestic installer level 3>
inspection and testing>
17th edition>
esc card(optional)
start work!!

any feedback is massively appreciated.
thanks
shaun

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hey guys,
after constantly annoying every tutor on my course to the point of them wanting to kill me i finally got the
head of electrical in today to speak to our class about the route we have to take to get to our destination.
so fair play to her she put it all out there and this is what we got(see attached photos) so i am now under
the impression this is my correct path:-

2365 level 2>
domestic installer level 3>
inspection and testing>
17th edition>
esc card(optional)
start work!!

any feedback is massively appreciated.
thanks
shaunView attachment 31312View attachment 31313

Tv
No. 2365 level 2&3,nvq 3 which would include am2 and portfolio and 2 years experience to gain an ecs/jib card at an electricians grade.

 

[Scorrer11]

Tv
No. 2365 level 2&3,nvq 3 which would include am2 and portfolio and 2 years experience to gain an ecs/jib card at an electricians grade.

sorry lee i should have mentioned i dont want to be a fully qualified sparky, just a domestic installer. if this woman is wrong i may have to kick her office door down and go mental lol

 

[Leesparkykent]

Wouldn't know as this is an electricians forum......

 

[Andy78]

sorry lee i should have mentioned i dont want to be a fully qualified sparky, just a domestic installer. if this woman is wrong i may have to kick her office door down and go mental lol

If you don't want to be an electrician then any of these courses are a waste of time.

 

[davesparks]

sorry lee i should have mentioned i dont want to be a fully qualified sparky, just a domestic installer. if this woman is wrong i may have to kick her office door down and go mental lol

No such thing as a domestic installer as far as electrical installation work goes, you're either an electrician or not.
The whole concept of a domestic installer is something which has grown up from training companies making a fast buck selling the dream of making lots of money as a 'domestic installer' by doing a few short courses and magically becoming qualified. These people are becoming a real menace as they are working in people's homes under the mistaken impression that they know what they are doing and in actual fact are putting people's lives and property in danger.

The only way to learn this practical, technical trade is to learn the theory in college and the practical by working with an experienced tradesman for a few years.

The regulations make no distinction between domestic and non domestic work, the basic theory applies to all, it's only the practical which changes

 

[Leesparkykent]

No such thing as a domestic installer as far as electrical installation work goes, you're either an electrician or not.
The whole concept of a domestic installer is something which has grown up from training companies making a fast buck selling the dream of making lots of money as a 'domestic installer' by doing a few short courses and magically becoming qualified. These people are becoming a real menace as they are working in people's homes under the mistaken impression that they know what they are doing and in actual fact are putting people's lives and property in danger.

The only way to learn this practical, technical trade is to learn the theory in college and the practical by working with an experienced tradesman for a few years.

The regulations make no distinction between domestic and non domestic work, the basic theory applies to all, it's only the practical which changes

Amen to that

 

[Scorrer11]

If you don't want to be an electrician then any of these courses are a waste of time.

im not saying the courses are a waste of time but if im going on the wrong courses for what i want to do then it would
appear to be a waste of time in my eyes yes, the head of electrical in our college has given us this table for different paths so is she right or wrong, if wrong why is she wrong? i dont quite get if im just getting sarcasm or serious answers either?!
thought the training bit was somewhere newbies could get help?!

 

[Scorrer11]

No such thing as a domestic installer as far as electrical installation work goes, you're either an electrician or not.
The whole concept of a domestic installer is something which has grown up from training companies making a fast buck selling the dream of making lots of money as a 'domestic installer' by doing a few short courses and magically becoming qualified. These people are becoming a real menace as they are working in people's homes under the mistaken impression that they know what they are doing and in actual fact are putting people's lives and property in danger.

The only way to learn this practical, technical trade is to learn the theory in college and the practical by working with an experienced tradesman for a few years.

The regulations make no distinction between domestic and non domestic work, the basic theory applies to all, it's only the practical which changes

im not looking for a quick qualification, im allready doing 2365 level 2 and after i was going to do 2365 level 3 but now this lady who is meant to be an expert is telling our class that if you only want to work on domestic(230v and under) than you go to college to do domestic installer level 3 instead and then do your inspection and testing and 17th edition before you are fully qualified to do your own work aswell as sign it off.
thank you for a constructive reply

 

[Leesparkykent]

This isn't in the trainee section scorrer.

 

[Sparkie30]

im not saying the courses are a waste of time but if im going on the wrong courses for what i want to do then it would
appear to be a waste of time in my eyes yes, the head of electrical in our college has given us this table for different paths so is she right or wrong, if wrong why is she wrong? i dont quite get if im just getting sarcasm or serious answers either?!
thought the training bit was somewhere newbies could get help?!

do you want to be electrician ? If yes then get on level 2 then 3. There is no short cut, sorry to dissapoint you.

 

[Adam W]

Did your tutor tell you that you can only hold a trainee card for 2 years, then after that you'd only be entitled to a labourer's card?

The trainee card is intended for exactly that - to get you on site until you complete the NVQ3, when you get an electrician's card.
Ending up as a trainee isn't really a "path".

 

[Scorrer11]

do you want to be electrician ? If yes then get on level 2 then 3. There is no short cut, sorry to dissapoint you.

dont take offense but what do you guys have to do with the training of new guys to know all the new requirements etc, any lecturers in here?!

 

[Scorrer11]

Did your tutor tell you that you can only hold a trainee card for 2 years, then after that you'd only be entitled to a labourer's card?

The trainee card is intended for exactly that - to get you on site until you complete the NVQ3, when you get an electrician's card.
Ending up as a trainee isn't really a "path".

the only thing she said about the ecs card is that you can get one after you complete level 2 and go on site to work as a electricians mate

 

[davesparks]

im not saying the courses are a waste of time but if im going on the wrong courses for what i want to do then it would
appear to be a waste of time in my eyes yes, the head of electrical in our college has given us this table for different paths so is she right or wrong, if wrong why is she wrong? i dont quite get if im just getting sarcasm or serious answers either?!
thought the training bit was somewhere newbies could get help?!

The trainee section of the forum is where trainees get help, but you have not posted in it!

 

[Leesparkykent]

dont take offense but what do you guys have to do with the training of new guys to know all the new requirements etc, any lecturers in here?!

I have two apprentices. One who's in his first year and the other in his second.

 

[Scorrer11]

The trainee section of the forum is where trainees get help, but you have not posted in it!

can i move it or just delete and start again?

 

[davesparks]

dont take offense but what do you guys have to do with the training of new guys to know all the new requirements etc, any lecturers in here?!

The one and only route to becoming an electrician in any field is via an apprenticeship, and we all take on apprentices and train them.

Personally I have had three people work with me after completing these 'domestic installer qualifications' and none of them have been safe to work on their own, and one of them was a particular danger to himself!
The worst part is they all believed that they were qualified and safe to be working solo!

 

[Adam W]

dont take offense but what do you guys have to do with the training of new guys to know all the new requirements etc, any lecturers in here?!

The people offering advice have completed training and are working as electricians. A lecturer might know about what courses are available and should be able to get you a certificate at the end, but they wouldn't know what it takes to get work, which presumably is what you want at the end of all this.

 

[davesparks]

the only thing she said about the ecs card is that you can get one after you complete level 2 and go on site to work as a electricians mate

But you said you don't want to work on site?

 

[Scorrer11]

I have two apprentices. One who's in his first year and the other in his second.

apprenticeship is good if you can live on the wages cuz everything is rolled into one bulk package, unfortunately like many others commitments mean i cant take that path

 

[davesparks]

apprenticeship is good if you can live on the wages cuz everything is rolled into one bulk package, unfortunately like many others commitments mean i cant take that path

Unfortunately you cannot learn the trade by any other means, whether the apprenticeship is formal or informal. You cannot learn a trade in a classroom.

Out if interest what is your current/previous career?

 

[Scorrer11]

But you said you don't want to work on site?

i wouldnt rule off new housing site work, thats wat she said to our whole class

 

[Scorrer11]

Unfortunately you cannot learn the trade by any other means, whether the apprenticeship is formal or informal. You cannot learn a trade in a classroom.

Out if interest what is your current/previous career?

photolab technician currently and previously motorcycle mechanic(love bikes but didnt pay the bills )

 

[Leesparkykent]

apprenticeship is good if you can live on the wages cuz everything is rolled into one bulk package, unfortunately like many others commitments mean i cant take that path

I can appreciate that but why set your sites on not doing it properly? Complete your level 2 2365, move on to your level 3 2365 and then seek employment as a mate which would get you about £10 an hour and complete your portfolio, bridging units and AM2. This way you will be fully qualified with some experience.

 

[Scorrer11]

I can appreciate that but why set your sites on not doing it properly? Complete your level 2 2365, move on to your level 3 2365 and then seek employment as a mate which would get you about £10 an hour and complete your portfolio, bridging units and AM2. This way you will be fully qualified with some experience.

so this has allways been my plan even though i would ideally like to solely work on residential property but today this lady has what would seem made up a dream path for me that doesnt even exist grrrrr

 

[Leesparkykent]

so this has allways been my plan even though i would ideally like to solely work on residential property but today this lady has what would seem made up a dream path for me that doesnt even exist grrrrr

Stick to the original plan...you would be mad not to.

 

[Adam W]

Why do you only want to do house bashing?

 

[davesparks]

photolab technician currently and previously motorcycle mechanic(love bikes but didnt pay the bills )

So how much training did you receive for each of those jobs?

 

[Scorrer11]

So how much training did you receive for each of those jobs?

mechanic 3 year apprenticeship
technician was like a 6 week on the job training course but it pays more, ooo the irony lol

 

[Sparkie30]

dont take offense but what do you guys have to do with the training of new guys to know all the new requirements etc, any lecturers in here?!

no offence pal, we had 3 aprettinces 2 of them were useless 1 was cocky, refused to have any of them near me. They all left. Im not judging you btw. You will be sick Of domestic after 2 years.

You are getting the best possible advice from everyone here so may be you should take note.

 

[davesparks]

mechanic 3 year apprenticeship
technician was like a 6 week on the job training course but it pays more, ooo the irony lol

Cool, so what advice would you give to someone who's was considering becoming a bike mechanic without doing an apprenticeship and only doing a college course without the massive practical training you get from an apprenticeship?

There is a certain amount of comparison as both trades have a huge practical skill base which can only be learned from people experienced in doing the job.

 

[rolyberkin]

Hey guys,
after constantly annoying every tutor on my course to the point of them wanting to kill me i finally got the
head of electrical in today to speak to our class about the route we have to take to get to our destination.
so fair play to her she put it all out there and this is what we got(see attached photos) so i am now under
the impression this is my correct path:-

2365 level 2>
domestic installer level 3>
inspection and testing>
17th edition>
esc card(optional)
start work!!

any feedback is massively appreciated.
thanks
shaunView attachment 31312View attachment 31313

2365 L2
2365 L3
2357 NVQ Conversion
AM2

Beware of college lecturers they sometimes tell you what you want to hear whilst putting you on the course they actually run rather than what you may need for your long term aims I am also following the above route, get a password for the trainee section, replies can be a bit more forgiving in there!;-) I agree with the suggestion that you should get a full qualification +NVQ element as it opens up more avenues.

And I am a qualified adult education trainer and A1 assessor just not in electrics, which probably answers one of your previous comments also!

 

[Scorrer11]

2365 L2
2365 L3
2357 NVQ Conversion
AM2

Beware of college lecturers they sometimes tell you what you want to hear whilst putting you on the course they actually run rather than what you may need for your long term aims I am also following the above route, get a password for the trainee section, replies can be a bit more forgiving in there!;-) I agree with the suggestion that you should get a full qualification +NVQ element as it opens up more avenues.

And I am a qualified adult education trainer and A1 assessor just not in electrics, which probably answers one of your previous comments also!

why couldnt you have been the first response, would have never got this post past 1 page then. thanks so much

 

[Scorrer11]

Cool, so what advice would you give to someone who's was considering becoming a bike mechanic without doing an apprenticeship and only doing a college course without the massive practical training you get from an apprenticeship?

There is a certain amount of comparison as both trades have a huge practical skill base which can only be learned from people experienced in doing the job.

i dont really know to be honest, i feel the apprenticeship is beneficial practically but theoretically its awful because i struggled to get technical info at work or at college as both were just focused on cost cutting techniques.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Yet another thread on domestic installers. Is there still this culture in the UK about how being one is the answer to everyones dreams of becoming rich?

I have no problems people wanting to move on, do something better (if DI can ever be thought of better than anything) but we seem to be getting these guys just wanting to go into someones house cut a few floor boards, climb about in a few lofts, pull in a few generic cables, because we don't "design" anymore and and that is that.

I just wonder after most on here go to that great workshop in the sky what will happen. You'll get a poster coming on

"I have this 3 phase supply and I was wondering if you could..................."

Just to get the reply

"Not sure mate..but if it is floor board you need lifting the best way.............."

 

[BES]

Sorry guys but what the lady had told him is right. No he wont be a qualified electrician in most on heres eyes but while part p and the schemes still exist and if all he wants to do is domestic when hes finished the courses the lady suggests he is as qualified as you and i to do so in the relevent peoples eyes like or not. Nvqs and jib cards are irelevent in this case.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Sorry guys but what the lady had told him is right. No he wont be a qualified electrician in most on heres eyes but while part p and the schemes still exist and if all he wants to do is domestic when hes finished the courses the lady suggests he is as qualified as you and i to do so in the relevent peoples eyes like or not. Nvqs and jib cards are irelevent in this case.

Not if he wants to do new build work on sites like the OP suggests then the jib card is relevant.

 

[BES]

Not if he wants to do new build work on sites like the OP suggests then the jib card is relevant.

Missed that bit about site work lee. Yes in that case obviously your right but as it stands at the minute non site domestic work requires no nvq , jib or ecs.
So what she as told her is correct

 

[BES]

She is still wrong BES why produce a flow chart that shows the 1st step as doing a recognised level 2 Diploma (2365) then the 2nd step is to go and do a 5 day domestic installer course which according to her takes a year? There will be far more learnt in the 2365 course than the DI course so there is no progression what so ever in qualifications, there is no sense in that and as an advisor/tutor/head of area that is embarrassing and **** poor advice. The chart then also suggests after the DI course to do the level 3 Diploma at college.

Being a Head of Electrical she should also understand that the AM2 is now a unit in the 2357 and it is not a separate qualification/course as her chart suggests. The tutor's role is to advise their students on things like this, part of the Head's role is to know the qualifications inside out.

Apprenticeship is open to anybody but the funding is cut at the age of 24 her chart shows the apprenticeship is only open to 16-26 year olds.

Its just an absolute mess and for someone at her pay grade they should be far more clearer than this, its quite difficult for new guys to understand what qualifications are needed

At the end of the day the OP wants to work in the domestic sector he would stand a far better chance from the advice given by the guys suggesting the 2365 & 2357 and looking at the prices on that board it wont be much more expensive. Not many employers will take him on without paying him trainee wages and probably expect him to go through the proper route eventually if he wants a pay increase.

To be fair all he needs is the 17th , pl insurance and a job to show one of the schemes pay the fee and he is off and running.