EICR. What do you make of this then?

[1Justin]

Recent EICR from a NICEIC member at house being let out. I’ve visited today to quote for some minor works.

R1+R2 Every circuit “LIM”.
IR Every circuit “LIM”.
RCD times Every circuit N/A (despite all the sockets having RCD).
Earth fault loop impedance : Measurements !..but only Zs sockets, everything else “LIM”. House socket circuit and garage socket both exceed their minimum impedance in the schedule, but no comment or fault code.
RCD button Pass (well that was easy).
Circuit vulnerable to test: Every circuit “-“ .(Several in fact are vulnerable, such as fans to conservatory and wet rooms. I suppose it's irrelevant if they don't get tested)
Earthing conductor: Report reads 16mm. Unless I am very mistaken from quick visual, it’s 6mm, (Vernier calliper when I return). Adiabatic for this TNS gives minimum 6.6mm
Bonding conductor: Report reads 6mm but has “LIM” in all the optional fields (gas, water, structural steel etc). There is in fact.. no bonding to metal water and gas
Inspection schedule Reads “pass” in every field.

Overall conclusion : “satisfactory”.

 

[Andy78]

I'd like to see what is written in "extent of limitations"

 

[1Justin]

I'd like to see what is written in "extent of limitations"

"100% of the installation"
and "Unable to fully inspect main supplementary bonding" (sic)

 

[Andy78]

That makes complete sense then... lol... Will you be suggesting to the person who ordered the report that they should be asking for a refund ?

 

[1Justin]

I don't really know what to do. I have told the customer the report is "***"
A bit like a job I worked on a month ago, TNS.
Previous installer (NICEIC also.. this must be coincidence), couldn't be arsed to bond rising water main to MET, - because running the "Main protective Bonding Conductor" from the water pipe, then out through the wall to a new 4' earthing electrode behind the kitchen..was just so much easier!

 

[Octopus]

Recent EICR from a NICEIC member at house being let out. I’ve visited today to quote for some minor works.

R1+R2 Every circuit “LIM”.
IR Every circuit “LIM”.
RCD times Every circuit N/A (despite all the sockets having RCD).
Earth fault loop impedance : Measurements !..but only Zs sockets, everything else “LIM”. House socket circuit and garage socket both exceed their minimum impedance in the schedule, but no comment or fault code.
RCD button Pass (well that was easy).
Circuit vulnerable to test: Every circuit “-“ .(Several in fact are vulnerable, such as fans to conservatory and wet rooms. I suppose it's irrelevant if they don't get tested)
Earthing conductor: Report reads 16mm. Unless I am very mistaken from quick visual, it’s 6mm, (Vernier calliper when I return). Adiabatic for this TNS gives minimum 6.6mm
Bonding conductor: Report reads 6mm but has “LIM” in all the optional fields (gas, water, structural steel etc). There is in fact.. no bonding to metal water and gas
Inspection schedule Reads “pass” in every field.

Overall conclusion : “satisfactory”.

Not worth the paper its written on?

How much did they pay?

 

[1Justin]

I don't know how much. They had the installer round for several days and in the "observations" there are lots of purely physical-visual type faults which WERE fixed, such as cracked boxes, unsupported cables, loose connections, no cpc lighting (hence removal of metal faceplates). - So some useful stuff did happen, but not, it seems regarding the elephant(s) in the room.

 

[Tony Way]

Makes me laugh really, I've lost 2 probably quite lucrative EICRs recently because the insurance company letters state NICEIC members have to be used. Doesn't matter that I'm ELECSA and we're owned by the same bloody company.... and now I see the standard I could work down to. Just the same as an NICEIC limited scope part P plumber I followed into a job. He'd disconnected both Gas and Water bonds when he changed the pipework, neatly coiled and taped them, completely omitting to reconnect them.

 

[Guest77]

Makes me laugh really, I've lost 2 probably quite lucrative EICRs recently because the insurance company letters state NICEIC members have to be used. Doesn't matter that I'm ELECSA and we're owned by the same bloody company.... and now I see the standard I could work down to. Just the same as an NICEIC limited scope part P plumber I followed into a job. He'd disconnected both Gas and Water bonds when he changed the pipework, neatly coiled and taped them, completely omitting to reconnect them.

That riles me, I have written to the IET suggesting it should talk to plumbers bodies and make it law that any earth connection points disconnected should be replaced by law, now whether they do it and get an electrician to confirm continuity or whether they have to notify the fact to building control who would then ask an electrician to reconnect and test unimportant IMO, but it should be law, these wet pants crunts are endangering the lives of housholders and no-one wants to hold them to account.

 

[Knobhead]

That riles me, I have written to the IET suggesting it should talk to plumbers bodies and make it law that any earth connection points disconnected should be replaced by law, now whether they do it and get an electrician to confirm continuity or whether they have to notify the fact to building control who would then ask an electrician to reconnect and test unimportant IMO, but it should be law, these wet pants crunts are endangering the lives of housholders and no-one wants to hold them to account.

That would be the ideal world Mike. But BS7671 isn’t statute. Getting other trades to be legally bound to the requirements of BS7671 is a non starter because electricians aren’t bound to them.

In the event of an accident then members of other trades will be in the same boat as an electrician and will have to defend themselves. Like an electrician, ignorance of the requirements would be no defence.
The label required on a BS951 bonding clamp is to draw peoples attention to its purpose. Anyone ignoring the words “do not remove” would condemn themselves if things went wrong.
On the industrial side I’ve had fitters removing bolted connections and jumpers on HP gas mains. Their reason, “they were in the way.”



I’ve got to say though: I don’t know who designed the 951 clamp but they made a god awful job of it.

 

[Risteard]

I have written to the IET suggesting it should talk to plumbers bodies and make it law that any earth connection points disconnected should be replaced by law

The IET have no power to write laws though.