Electrical engineering

[aces4al]

Hi, I'm currently finishing my level 3 electrical installation and going straight into the hnc electrical engineering. I was wondering if anyone has done the hnc and could possibly give me a heads up on the course, thanks for any info.

 

[Charlie_]

You should consider doing the ONC first

 

[Pete999]

Think you need to do a 1 year bridging course before you even attempt the ONC

 

[aces4al]

The college don't run the onc but I have saw what i will be doing when I had an interview for the course it's not much different in the maths side of things, just wondered if anyone had did the hnc and knew anything more about it

 

[atm84]

ONC is not too different difficulty wise to the NVQ level 3. Crack on with the hnc then the HND and finally get the degree. You will soon be sat in a nice office giving orders to the boys on the tools.

 

[TJ Anderson]

ONC is not too different difficulty wise to the NVQ level 3. Crack on with the hnc then the HND and finally get the degree. You will soon be sat in a nice office giving orders to the boys on the tools.

Yeah, you will be an engineer then, worst case, if it all goes pete tong over here, just get on a plane to China

 

[Ste69]

Hi, I'm currently finishing my level 3 electrical installation and going straight into the hnc electrical engineering. I was wondering if anyone has done the hnc and could possibly give me a heads up on the course, thanks for any info.

You wont need to do the ONC mate, i have done both the ONC and 2357 tech cert....they are the same level. Maybe need a maths bridge course, though if you are good at maths then you should be fine.

 

[Guest77]

ONC is not too different difficulty wise to the NVQ level 3. Crack on with the hnc then the HND and finally get the degree. You will soon be sat in a nice office giving orders to the boys on the tools.

Bollox

 

[Charlie_]

Bollox

This was also my initial thought but was trying to think of a more diplomatic answer..

 

[Ste69]

ONC is not too different difficulty wise to the NVQ level 3. Crack on with the hnc then the HND and finally get the degree. You will soon be sat in a nice office giving orders to the boys on the tools.

Two different things mate........the ONC is all class room based and the NVQ 3 is all work based...a better comparison would be the ONC and 2330, 2357 knowledge units etc.

 

[jon4381]

An Ordinary National Certificate(ONC) is a further educationqualification in the United Kingdom, awarded by BTEC. It is at Level 3, equivalent to A Levels.

 

[Guest77]

An Ordinary National Certificate(ONC) is a further educationqualification in the United Kingdom, awarded by BTEC. It is at Level 3, equivalent to A Levels.

And? look at post 10, that is the argument, one is work based one is class room based, so how is a ONC and a NVQ level 3 similar?

 

[atm84]

I said not too different difficulty wise. I didn't say they were the same course. OP get your self a degree then you will be streets ahead of everyone and won't have time to argue between an NVQ and ONC. Didn't think they still did the ONC in electrical engineering anymore anyway.

 

[jon4381]

MDJ, this is what I found on Google. I think it means class based level 3 (2330 or 2356).

 

[ImpededLoop]

Hi, I'm currently finishing my level 3 electrical installation and going straight into the hnc electrical engineering. I was wondering if anyone has done the hnc and could possibly give me a heads up on the course, thanks for any info.

If you're maths is up to scratch you should be ok to go onto the HNC. The best thing to do is to talk to the course leader at the college and ask if they're confident that you can do the HNC.

 

[PEG]

ONC is not too different difficulty wise to the NVQ level 3. Crack on with the hnc then the HND and finally get the degree. You will soon be sat in a nice office giving orders to the boys on the tools.

...NOT necessarily the way it pans out... :icon12:

 

[Knobhead]

ONC is not too different difficulty wise to the NVQ level 3. Crack on with the hnc then the HND and finally get the degree. You will soon be sat in a nice office giving orders to the boys on the tools.

There’s other ways of getting in to that office. Knowing what you’re talking about helps.

 

[Engineer54]

The college don't run the onc but I have saw what i will be doing when I had an interview for the course it's not much different in the maths side of things, just wondered if anyone had did the hnc and knew anything more about it

If you are under the illusion that the HNC Math is not much different from what you have been doing, you're in for a very rude awakening and very quickly!!

 

[ackbarthestar]

OND Electrical and Electronics BTEC maths was roughly equivalent to the old C course maths. (which might be the same as what is now the 2396). However, the educational authorities may have watered it down to get bums on seats and then give you the necessary crash course to get those weak areas up to the appropriate level.
The HND maths level is a little higher than both of these.

 

[Engineer54]

Can't talk for today's situations ackbarthester, but in my time HND level maths was nigh on Degree level, with the HND being equivalent as a foundation qualification course for an Engineering degree (typically used by adult students as a route to gaining a degree etc. Eg, equivalent and taken as the first year of a 3 Year Degree.

HNC maths was infinitely higher than any C&G course of the time.

 

[aces4al]

What the tutor showed me is what I have been doing in my level 3 and seemed surprised I knew it already ie power equations, impedance, voltage drop and generators and the like. Hnc isn't far off a degree but is the equivalent to a level 4. The tutor was more bothered if I had done any testing, but thanks anyway guys just wondered if anyone had done it and knew more about it

 

[Engineer54]

What the tutor showed me is what I have been doing in my level 3 and seemed surprised I knew it already ie power equations, impedance, voltage drop and generators and the like. Hnc isn't far off a degree but is the equivalent to a level 4. The tutor was more bothered if I had done any testing, but thanks anyway guys just wondered if anyone had done it and knew more about it

There is a very fundamental difference between C&G courses/qualifications to the National Certificates/Diplomas. The C&G are based around the needs of tradesmen while the Nationals are based around Engineering practices. There is nothing that i remember, with HNC having anything to do with inspection and testing, other than in the normal course of things....

HNC is not a foundation course for a degree, although the level of maths is, or was at a far higher level than that any C&G course math of the day... Don't make the mistake of considering G&G and Nationals as being run along the same lines, they are most definitely ''Not''!!

Lot's of things changed in 1999 when standards across the board fell and the Engineering Council took account of that, with higher entry levels being required to be registered with them, as did many Engineering institutes...

 

[ackbarthestar]

Before you wander off
This link might give you an idea of the depth of an HNC Electronics course. The AC, DC , Electromagnetism, Capacitors, resistors plus other bits and pieces are common to both electrical and electronics. Its not degree level and there is very little maths in it.
I won't post any maths links otherwise you might disappear for ever

Basic Electronics Tutorials Sitemap Page

Good luck

 

[shanky887614]

There’s other ways of getting in to that office. Knowing what you’re talking about helps.

also being terrible on the tools

 

[shanky887614]

An Ordinary National Certificate(ONC) is a further educationqualification in the United Kingdom, awarded by BTEC. It is at Level 3, equivalent to A Levels.

i was doing A levels before i started 2330.

me and another lad were working all calcs out roughly in our heads, i struggled to work it out quick but he was doing A level maths lol.

i don't mind maths but i still havent bothered memorizing my times tables, i can work it out quite quickly but why bother when we have calcs nowadays

i think ill look at onc etc eventually

 

[Bobster]

i was doing A levels before i started 2330.

me and another lad were working all calcs out roughly in our heads, i struggled to work it out quick but he was doing A level maths lol.

i don't mind maths but i still havent bothered memorizing my times tables, i can work it out quite quickly but why bother when we have calcs nowadays

i think ill look at onc etc eventually

Get past HNC level maths and they wont help a great deal. As far as I know there aren't calculators that can deal with complex numbers and transforms well.

 

[shanky887614]

Get past HNC level maths and they wont help a great deal. As far as I know there aren't calculators that can deal with complex numbers and transforms well.

spreadsheet on your phone is more use to be honest, it saves writing notes on long equation's etc.

besides if you set it up right you can change any values on the fly to see the right values, a bit like the excellent spreadsheet from tony

 

[Bobster]

Matlab is far better than excel for that.

I don't think excel will accept complex numbers. Or if it can I don't know how. (never looked into it)

 

[Engineer54]

Its not degree level and there is very little maths in it.

Well all i can say, if that's the case, things have changed beyond my recognition of what an HNC qualification entailed. Perhaps it may help if a recent HNC graduate can give us the SP on their experience!!

Oh and ONC and BTEC are two completely different qualifications, they may be classed as equivalent, but they are not (or weren't) awarded by the same authority....

 

[Lenny]

What the tutor showed me is what I have been doing in my level 3 and seemed surprised I knew it already ie power equations, impedance, voltage drop and generators and the like. Hnc isn't far off a degree but is the equivalent to a level 4. The tutor was more bothered if I had done any testing, but thanks anyway guys just wondered if anyone had done it and knew more about it

What HNC are you doing??

That sounds more akin to a building services one than electrical engineering. Also bare in mind your tutor will make all the right noises to get you to sign on the dotted line!

When I did my HNC/D, the maths module was mind blowing! Granted, I didn't do a levels and had been out of college for a few years but it was still much more than I expected.

What is your background??

 

[Engineer54]

There is (as far as i can see anyway) a problem in the way qualification rating levels are applied to electrical/engineering and higher education qualifications as a whole. For example, how the hell can a PAT or 17th qualification (the latter also being ''open book'') be qualified as having a level 3 rating, exactly the same level as a full C&G 2365/2330/etc or a C&G 2396 having the same level as a 2 or 3 year HNC/D course.

None of it makes any sense to me, it's like pulling and applying level ratings out of the air, they certainly don't reflect the differences in the complexity or the time, effort needed to obtain them...

 

[Bobster]

HND is a level 5 rating.

The only difference now from when I did it is a % (I think around 30%) of the qualification is open book coursework rather than 100% closed book exams.

 

[Jonspark]

I thought that the regs exam was an open book exam as it's basically an assessment of how you navigate your way around BS7671?

 

[Engineer54]

HND is a level 5 rating.

The only difference now from when I did it is a % (I think around 30%) of the qualification is open book coursework rather than 100% closed book exams.

Really meaning HNC, not the D. 30% Open book coursework on HND, what's the bloody point anymore!! lol!!

So what is a Degree rated at these days then, it was i think also rated at level 5....

EDIT... Just checked in England and Wales/NI a Bsc carries a level 6 rating. Lots of confusion between different organisations as to HNC and HND, some giving a HNC a level 5 rating while with most it's a level 4... All give a level 5 for HND.

 

[Engineer54]

I thought that the regs exam was an open book exam as it's basically an assessment of how you navigate your way around BS7671?

It's still rated as a level 3 C&G qualification, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!!

 

[Jonspark]

It's still rated as a level 3 C&G qualification, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!!

agree,but it has to be a open book exam lol!!

 

[ackbarthestar]

agree,but it has to be a open book exam lol!!

No, not necessarily. When I did my ONC Electrical Installation module, it was closed book and I had to write about 4 pages on Farmyards and petrol stations, with regulations to support what knew. But then that wasn't C&G.....

 

[Jonspark]

No, not necessarily. When I did my ONC Electrical Installation module, it was closed book and I had to write about 4 pages on Farmyards and petrol stations, with regulations to support what knew. But then that wasn't C&G.....

Different exam mate[emoji6]

 

[SheffSimon]

Really meaning HNC, not the D. 30% Open book coursework on HND, what's the bloody point anymore!! lol!!

So what is a Degree rated at these days then, it was i think also rated at level 5....

EDIT... Just checked in England and Wales/NI a Bsc carries a level 6 rating. Lots of confusion between different organisations as to HNC and HND, some giving a HNC a level 5 rating while with most it's a level 4... All give a level 5 for HND.

My apprentice at work completed his HNC Elec Eng last year, and I gave him some help on the maths. It seemed about A level standard in the particular areas covered, but without the same breadth of topics covered in A level.

It was nowhere near the level I went to on my Elec Eng degree, in 1990. Maybe things have changed, and the level of maths on a degree course has fallen??

 

[Engineer54]

My apprentice at work completed his HNC Elec Eng last year, and I gave him some help on the maths. It seemed about A level standard in the particular areas covered, but without the same breadth of topics covered in A level.

It was nowhere near the level I went to on my Elec Eng degree, in 1990. Maybe things have changed, and the level of maths on a degree course has fallen??

Your A level maths (GCE) is a far cry from what they now call A level (GCSE) maths. It seems the standard has been dropping year on year to keep pass rates high for political reasons. And Every year the Universities, (well the better ones anyway) complain of those standards falling below what they class as acceptable for the courses the students want to read....

The other thing to consider is that the overall standard of higher education including Degrees fell in 1999...

 

[Silly Sausage]

Here's a taster of degree level Maths...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=iN7G2Bisvw5uSv2Qpf6RaQ&bvm=bv.85970519,d.d2s


And they're only 2nd Order!
Slighter more advanced than C&G level 4, whatever those levels are supposed to represent! :smilielol5:

 

[christowilso]

I currently working my way through year three of uni having completed an HNC and HND. If your maths skills aren't great then it'll be real tough to get through but i managed it with a a lot of hard work and studying in my own time. If you want to know specifics then PM me. During the HNC maths you'll cover trigonometry, complex numbers(which you'll need to fully understand for other subjects), quadratic equations, basics of transposition and other things.

 

[aces4al]

Thanks for that christowilso, that all the kind of thing I have been doing on my level 3. To everyone else, Obviously the hnc will be harder I'm well prepared for that, all I was saying is the equations and things I was shown were what I have been doing already which are a level standard. All I wanted to know was, has anyone done the course recently and if so what was it like

 

[Engineer54]

Here's a taster of degree level Maths...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=iN7G2Bisvw5uSv2Qpf6RaQ&bvm=bv.85970519,d.d2s


And they're only 2nd Order!
Slighter more advanced than C&G level 4, whatever those levels are supposed to represent! :smilielol5:

I don't think you're ever going to convince him Archy. He'll just have to find out for himself when he starts his HNC course, that the math he is using now for C&G studies isn't going to easily get him through a theory based HNC course....

 

[aces4al]

I've never said it would as I already said I know it's harder, I just said some of it is similar to what I have already done. I looked at that post and yes I have done some and others I have not

 

[christowilso]

I've never said it would as I already said I know it's harder, I just said some of it is similar to what I have already done. I looked at that post and yes I have done some and others I have not

At the end of the day if you're willing to put in the work you'll get through it. After the first two weeks of the HNC i done two years ago i felt completely out of my depth and was ready to stop. A fair bit of hard work and total commitment got me through it so i can only recommend more of the same.

 

[aces4al]

Cheers mate

 

[GB.Kayak]

Get past HNC level maths and they wont help a great deal. As far as I know there aren't calculators that can deal with complex numbers and transforms well.

There are calculators that can deal with complex numbers ... transforms, would that be Fourier transforms? If so, I am not so sure on that one!

Matlab is far better than excel for that.

I don't think excel will accept complex numbers. Or if it can I don't know how. (never looked into it)

If you know the theory and have the time and the knowledge, MS Excel could be used for calculations with complex numbers ... but you are correct, Matlab or Mathcad would be much better applications. I know for certain that Mathcad works on natural mathematical notation. I used to be frustrated at work as a design 'stressman' that the control law expert was allowed to use Mathcad but we mere stress analysts were only allowed pencil and paper, 'tippex' a photocopier and a copy of ROARK'S Formulas for Stress and Strain on the desk! MS Excel, was the 'work of the devil' because it hides the natural language of the mathematics in an almost impenetrable code dependent on how a spreadsheet is laid out and how the user chooses to implement their solution. Quality control is all but impossible! It was a nightmare every time the designer changed his mind on materials! Out would come the stress calc and tippex, blot out the bits requiring change, photocopy the original and fill in the numbers through the entire calculation all over again!

 

[christowilso]

There are calculators that can deal with complex numbers ... transforms, would that be Fourier transforms? If so, I am not so sure on that one!



If you know the theory and have the time and the knowledge, MS Excel could be used for calculations with complex numbers ... but you are correct, Matlab or Mathcad would be much better applications. I know for certain that Mathcad works on natural mathematical notation. I used to be frustrated at work as a design 'stressman' that the control law expert was allowed to use Mathcad but we mere stress analysts were only allowed pencil and paper, 'tippex' a photocopier and a copy of ROARK'S Formulas for Stress and Strain on the desk! MS Excel, was the 'work of the devil' because it hides the natural language of the mathematics in an almost impenetrable code dependent on how a spreadsheet is laid out and how the user chooses to implement their solution. Quality control is all but impossible! It was a nightmare every time the designer changed his mind on materials! Out would come the stress calc and tippex, blot out the bits requiring change, photocopy the original and fill in the numbers through the entire calculation all over again!

In terms of complex numbers my calculator is my best friend. Any modern scientific calculator can deal with the polar rectangular conversion and vice verse in seconds.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Complex numbers are anything but!
The calculations with them are simple.