Fault on socket circuit

[Dillb]

Why is it ridiculous? How is safer not to assume a broken ring?

Because you have to issue a relavant cert and carry put testing anyway which shows everthing is good for comtimued use?

 

[Spoon]

Whats a "domestic installation certificate"?

Maybe the NICEIC have designed themselves a new cert...

 

[elsparko]

what in the ruddy hell is going on here

 

[Pete999]

Why is it ridiculous? How is safer not to assume a broken ring?

The best way, would be to test it properly rather make a dumb assumption.

 

[Spoon]

Why is it funny? Why wouldn't you do it?

Why would you 'assume' the ring is broke. Why not test it and fix it if it is.... Rather than ripping off the customer and charging them for something that they don't need...

 

[Deleted account]

I'm out!

 

[Spoon]

I'm out!

Don't go... this is the best laugh I've had in ages....

 

[Dillb]

I'm out!

Its all good, its the 21st Century and we are glad you feel you be be so open and honest with us all. I hope your family are as supportive of this too.

 

[Pete999]

Maybe the NICEIC have designed themselves a new cert...

Well I was just wondering Spoon, if Grant has, either given Money to the NICEIC (Thanks for that Dillb) or he is registered, begs some questions how on Earth (judging by some of Grants statement) was this acheived? and was the assessment carried out in the Assessors Vehicle.

 

[elsparko]

.

 

[Grant McLaren]

So just like this post your using guess work to carry out jobs. You are a chancer who has no idea what you are doing.

Please tell me Dillb, how is it that by downgrading a 32amp to 20amp is a bad thing or bad practice. Please explain the logic. Surely, it is more risky to follow your practice and assume, because the RFC is continuous that some cowboy hasn't come along and spur off the ring with no protection.

 

[elsparko]

Please tell me Dillb, how is it that by downgrading a 32amp to 20amp is a bad thing or bad practice. Please explain the logic. Surely, it is more risky to follow your practice and assume, because the RFC is continuous that some cowboy hasn't come along and spur off the ring with no protection.

how do you know that someone hasnt done as you say? by testing!

 

[Grant McLaren]

So just like this post your using guess work to carry out jobs. You are a chancer who has no idea what you are doing.

Please tell me Dillb, how is it that by downgrading a 32amp to 20amp is a bad thing or bad practice.

Well I was just wondering Spoon, if Grant has, either given Money to the NICEIC (Thanks for that Dillb) or he is registered, begs some questions how on Earth (judging by some of Grants statement) was this acheived? and was the assessment carried out in the Assessors Vehicle.

Please explain the logic. Surely, it is more risky to follow your practice and assume, because the RFC is continuous that some cowboy hasn't come along and spur off the ring with no protection.

 

[Dillb]

Please tell me Dillb, how is it that by downgrading a 32amp to 20amp is a bad thing or bad practice. Please explain the logic. Surely, it is more risky to follow your practice and assume, because the RFC is continuous that some cowboy hasn't come along and spur off the ring with no protection.

Becasue thats what testing is for.

 

[Pete999]

I'm out!

 

[Dillb]

Please tell me Dillb, how is it that by downgrading a 32amp to 20amp is a bad thing or bad practice.


Please explain the logic. Surely, it is more risky to follow your practice and assume, because the RFC is continuous that some cowboy hasn't come along and spur off the ring with no protection.

You do know how to calculate R1+R2 for a RFC to ensure there are no spurs on it dont you?

 

[Pete999]

Please tell me Dillb, how is it that by downgrading a 32amp to 20amp is a bad thing or bad practice.


Please explain the logic. Surely, it is more risky to follow your practice and assume, because the RFC is continuous that some cowboy hasn't come along and spur off the ring with no protection.

If it's just 1 socket being spurred off of a RFC what protection would be required?

 

[Grant McLaren]

Becasue thats what testing is for.

So if you do a RFC and the readings are acceptable, do you assume the ring is not broken and that someone hasn't spurred off the ring?

 

[Grant McLaren]

If it's just 1 socket being spurred off of a RFC what protection would be required?

How would you know it's just one socket?

 

[Dillb]

So if you do a RFC and the readings are acceptable, do you assume the ring is not broken and that someone hasn't spurred off the ring?

If r1, r2, rn , R1+R2 reading are all in order then there womt be a break or spur on the circuit

 

[Pete999]

How would you know it's just one socket?

Deleted, losing the will to carry on answering daft questions, from someone who ought to know better.

 

[Spoon]

If it's just 1 socket being spurred off of a RFC what protection would be required?

I know this.... I know this.....

 

[Strima]

 

[elsparko]

View attachment 42417

 

[Andy78]

I think the OP has some valid points.

Be back soon, I just have to pop out to collect my boots from the cobblers. Oh and the missus asked me to pop in the butchers and get some tripe. And some balony.
And the pet bull in the garden needs cleaning up after too.

 

[Grant McLaren]

If it's just 1 socket being spurred off of a RFC what protection would be required?

Besides, a single double socket has the potential to draw 26amps,

If r1, r2, rn , R1+R2 reading are all in order then there womt be a break or spur on the circuit

I don't think that's right. r1,rn,r2 at the CU would only tell the ring is continuous, but it wouldn't tell you if someone had spurred off it. The R1+R2 at the CU, I'm less sure about, but I still don't think it will tell you someone has spurred off the ring. But this is besides the point: is a socket circuit protected by a 20amp safer that a 32amp?

 

[Spoon]

So now, as well as assuming the RFC is broke you are assuming there are multiple spar sockets coming from said broken circuit.....

 

[Strima]

View attachment 42418

You still got room after that pizza?

 

[Strima]

Besides, a single double socket has the potential to draw 26amps,

I don't think that's right. r1,rn,r2 at the CU would only tell the ring is continuous, but it wouldn't tell you if someone had spurred off it. The R1+R2 at the CU, I'm less sure about, but I still don't think it will tell you someone has spurred off the ring. But this is besides the point: is a socket circuit protected by a 20amp safer that a 32amp?

Ring testing isn't solely at the CU. r1+rn and r1+r2 should also be tested at each point, this would identify any spurs and faults etc.

 

[Dillb]

Besides, a single double socket has the potential to draw 26amps,

I don't think that's right. r1,rn,r2 at the CU would only tell the ring is continuous, but it wouldn't tell you if someone had spurred off it. The R1+R2 at the CU, I'm less sure about, but I still don't think it will tell you someone has spurred off the ring. But this is besides the point: is a socket circuit protected by a 20amp safer that a 32amp?

Most standard twin sockets are only rated at 20amps if memory serves me correctly, so you had better swap them for singles too then.

You have proven you have a limited knowledge of testing as you should carry out a R1+R2 at every point of connection on a RFC to ensure there are no spurs connected too it.

 

[Deleted account]

I'm back! But I'm definately out again this time.

 

[Midwest]

OP's kept you all amused this afternoon. I think you've all been had.

You could direct your enthusiasm and waste your time with the guy wanting to power up his mancave.

 

[Grant McLaren]

Ring testing isn't solely at the CU. r1+rn and r1+r2 should also be tested at each point, this would identify any spurs and faults etc.

ring testing at each socket? now that I did not know.

 

[Pete999]

Besides, a single double socket has the potential to draw 26amps,

I don't think that's right. r1,rn,r2 at the CU would only tell the ring is continuous, but it wouldn't tell you if someone had spurred off it. The R1+R2 at the CU, I'm less sure about, but I still don't think it will tell you someone has spurred off the ring. But this is besides the point: is a socket circuit protected by a 20amp safer that a 32amp?

ring testing at each socket? now that I did not know.

Not surprised at all

 

[Risteard]

If r1, r2, rn , R1+R2 reading are all in order then there womt be a break or spur on the circuit

And (R1+Rn) - although this isn't recorded in the Schedule of Test Results it still forms part of ring final circuit continuity testing.

 

[Pete999]

OP's kept you all amused this afternoon. I think you've all been had.

You could direct your enthusiasm and waste your time with the guy wanting to power up his mancave.

Not as entertaining as this thread, I still reckon he is a wind up merchant, no one is this dopey.

 

[Octopus]

ring testing at each socket? now that I did not know.

OH MY GOD

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I blame Trump, he's always derided RFC's and in fact stated on a televised debate with Hilary that he always converts them to 20a just in case they are broken. OP must of done his 5 day course in Trump Towers College.

 

[Strima]

Any popcorn left or has @elsparko eaten it all?

 

[goasis]

Surely a wind up, you've invested 100 s of £'s in test kit that you basically have no need for because, you don't know how to use it, and hey what's the point anyway if we can just make random assumptions.... I'm pleased the guy that mots my car doesn't have the same attitude..

 

[Gareth Brookes]

You say you have continuity beteeen E-N, that may not trip if the current still finds a return path on the neutral which wouldn’t trip the RCD


Why do you assume that? Testing the circuit correctly will verify wether it’s good for continued use, not guess work on your part.

Electricians don't guess only plumbers

 

[Gareth Brookes]

You say you have continuity beteeen E-N, that may not trip if the current still finds a return path on the neutral which wouldn’t trip the RCD


Why do you assume that? Testing the circuit correctly will verify wether it’s good for continued use, not guess work on your part.

Electricians don't guess only plumbers

 

[pirate]

I measure! No guesswork!
I measure twice, cut once...
and still fek it up!
But with my plumbing, no-one dies...
My electrics..so far so good!

 

[elsparko]

english barry

 

[Pete999]

Why is it ridiculous? How is safer not to assume a broken ring?

My Dad once said to me "never assume anything" He was an astute Man, funnily enough I assumed that I had won the lottery Yesterday.

 

[Pete999]

So if you do a RFC and the readings are acceptable, do you assume the ring is not broken and that someone hasn't spurred off the ring?

I do know what ring final circuit is, I just haven't heard it referred to as RFC.

I didn't know that ring mains weren't used anymore, although I independently stopped using rings ages ago. Whenever, I encounter an old ring, I assume it is broken and downgrade to 20amp.

Wouldn't Ring Final Circuit, given you an itsy bitsy teeny weeny clue as to what RFC meant?

 

[Risteard]

In fairness both ring final circuits and radial final circuits could be abbreviated to RFC.

 

[sparksburnout]

Because it is safer to assume the ring is broken and downgrade. It's rare that someone needs 32 amps anymore.

I can think of someone.

 

[Toneyz]

Gareth,
What was your ring continuity readings? What were your L-E & N-E insulation resistance test results you have given no indication that any proper fault finding has been carried out all you say is that the earth is continuous? And I still don't understand why you would go into a clients house and just change the protective device to 20A for an RFC just because it COULD have a spur off a spur or not have continuity without any testing'well that's the impression you have given me. Be upfront and give us some facts and you may get some very good advice from members drawing on their own past experiences. From what you have told us so far it may be a cable that has been drilled screwed.

 

[Fitzy]

Sooooo, based on the op’s original post and subsequent assumptions and answers a ring final circuit is BROKEN because it has a spur or spurs on it and yet he doesn’t test at every socket to confirm any spurs etc.....