Aico 3000 Range
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Discuss Fluorescent lighting circuit in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

B

Busy Bee

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

Morning All, can I have your advice please - I am still learning the trade.

I have been asked by a friend to look at her lighting in her workshop and currently there are 2 fluorescent lights installed. She wants a further two lights installed and the existing ones reloacted. To be honest, I haven't dealt with fluorescent lighting before and after research, I am more confused than before. Its not the electrical theory, more about the actual lighting...

The current circuit is a radial and not a ring. To double the lighting to 4 bulbs I would think that it would be wise to turn it into a ring - am I correct in this? and what cable size would be appropriate for this type of lighting?

Also, it would seem sensible to completely replace all the fittings at the same time as it would seem that these types of bulbs can be problematic when moving them (something to do with ballast...?).

Lastly, are there any really important things to remember about this type of lighting that isn't considered with a standard light bulb that I must know....

Thanks for your help guys, appreciate your advice.

BusyBee
 
Instyle LED Lighting Specialists UK
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Jimmy Boy

-
Arms
To be blunt you sound completely out of your depth and not competent to carry out this type of work, get a professional competent electrician in.
J
 
D

Deleted member 9648

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Lighting circuits are radials....not rings. Whether you can add more lights to the circuit depends on how many lights are currently on it,cable size , volt drop and protective device rating.
Because fluorescent lighting is an inductive load consideration needs to be given to whether the switch is capable of switching the additional lights.
As Jimmy states,this is basic stuff,if you are unsure ask an electrician to carry out the work rather than risk the consequences of a mistake.
 
T

thekingiam

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
there is also something called sroboscopic effect ( my favourite word) where because of the unseen flickering of lights moving objects like lathes etc to the eye look like they are stationary when they areas above has in fact moving this can cause serious injury if the lights are not canceling each other out.

as your post indicates you have not enough knowledge to do cable calculations i think you would be better to give this one a mis and do a bit more theory in college before you try of all things a workshop.if something went wrong you would be in prison and that would be an end to your carier.
if you believe you are capable then start off by reading bs7671
 

Des 56

-
Arms
Esteemed
Busy Bee,in another thread you stated you are newly qualified
I will presume that the qualification was done without practical experience via an employer

Fitting extra lights sockets or whatever else has certain basic requirements
The circuit to be extended and the system that supplies, should be assessed for suitability


Try and find out more about the installation that you propose to carry out the work on
Just read thekingiams advise and being a workshop these are the type assessments the experienced sparks would include, as well as the electrical calculations


Jumping into a job with your mind unsure of what is required to complete the job in a safe manner, is not the way to get started
Safety and compliant installation is what electrical installation is all about

Learn initially what to do,how to best assess the work needed (without actually doing anything) until you are absolutely sure and confident that what you install is pucka

Maybe come back with much more detail of the existing installation,what you propose etc and see if you can be guided in a more appropriate way
 
B

Busy Bee

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Hi Des 56

Thank you for your email and yes I am newly qualified and I am trying to get the experience needed and I am in a catch 22 situation. I am researching this job thoroughly before I do anything at all and it is not an urgent job but one that I feel would be a good one to gain experience. I just wanted to check that I was on the right track as I need to start somewhere. I appreciate your comments and the manner of your reply and your advice is 100% correct - I would not dream of starting anything without fully understanding what i am getting into. The circuit is straight forward and can be fully seen (i.e. not up in the floor cavity) so I understand what I am seeing but made a mistake when typing the initial post about the circuit type.

So thank you for your reply and it is a relief that your comments mirror my thoughts. I will now consider alternative wiring solutions to address the comments made above.

Thanks again
 

Jimmy Boy

-
Arms
there is also something called sroboscopic effect ( my favourite word) where because of the unseen flickering of lights moving objects like lathes etc to the eye look like they are stationary when they areas above has in fact moving this can cause serious injury if the lights are not canceling each other out.

as your post indicates you have not enough knowledge to do cable calculations i think you would be better to give this one a mis and do a bit more theory in college before you try of all things a workshop.if something went wrong you would be in prison and that would be an end to your carier.

if you believe you are capable then start off by reading bs7671
Stroboscopic effect was usually addressed by havIng power on a different phase to the lights, the invention of HF lights eliminated that problem.Good point tho.
J
 

Jimmy Boy

-
Arms
I AM trying not to be too critical of the OP but at the same time concerned that someone 'Qualified' seems to lack the basic fundamentals of how to calculate a pretty basic circuit for vd and ccc ? This is bread and butter basics and with the regs books and the underpinning knowledge should be a breeze for a newly qualified, perhaps he should come back to us with his basic calcs for cable selection, his plan for the design and layout, and how he intends to carry out his verification for the purposes of inspection and testing, may suggest this is before any more info is offered ?
ATB
J
 
I AM trying not to be too critical of the OP but at the same time concerned that someone 'Qualified' seems to lack the basic fundamentals of how to calculate a pretty basic circuit for vd and ccc ? This is bread and butter basics and with the regs books and the underpinning knowledge should be a breeze for a newly qualified, perhaps he should come back to us with his basic calcs for cable selection, his plan for the design and layout, and how he intends to carry out his verification for the purposes of inspection and testing, may suggest this is before any more info is offered ?
ATB
J
Does they mean newly qualified as in Electrical Trainee though? They must...
 
This is exactly what I mean when I talk about a "dog ate my homework" question.
Busy Bee I think you should do exactly what Jimmy Boy suggested mate. Like him, I don't want to have a go or pee on your fireworks mate but you're way out of your depth here.
 
B

bugsy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
ever thought of calling for a professional?
 
M

MarkieSparkie

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
there is also something called sroboscopic effect ( my favourite word)...
As it's you favourite word it's just a shame you can't spell Stroboscopic then mate.:smilielol5:
 
M

MKS

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Jimmy does have a valid point. What is basically a basic situation is turning into something akin to rocket science for you! Fully qualified is a ubiquitous misnomer. Get an electrician in to give you advice :) Good luck!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

darkwood

Mod
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
As most of your reply posts are from regulars with many years of experience and all basically singing on the same song sheet here i too am always one to help where i can but like others here im seeing that what we all would consider the most basic of basic electrical knowledge is tripping you up, ive just asked my girl freind how a general socket circuit is wired and how a lighting circuit is wired.... she says 'sockets go from the fusebox around all the sockets and back to the fusebox, lights stop at last light and dont come back to fusebox'.... i told her this 3 yrs ago and she still remembers..... Do you see where im coming from B.B. ..... this is pre-college stuff and there is no way you got into year 2 with this lack of knowledge.

I hate to tell you you are not qualified regardless of the papers, i understand you haven't had experience yet but you would be unemployable not knowing these basics, i try to give everyone a chance but even i have limits before i say 'its not worth it' and sorry but you enter this area.

If as you say you are qualified regardless of on-site experience your thread should have been querying calcs for your circuit load, and at worst i would have had to remind you inductive load so dont forget to apply 1.8 factor and not as in your case suggesting to turn a lighting radial into a ring.

Im rarely harsh but either you stretching the truth or you really need to do a full 3 to 4 yr course and not a instant sparky course.

Its hard to write this without sounding like im having a go but far from it, i hope you can take it as constructive of what you should know by now and what you clearly dont.
 
Last edited:
was just thinking the same
there is also something called sroboscopic effect ( my favourite word) where because of the unseen flickering of lights moving objects like lathes etc to the eye look like they are stationary when they areas above has in fact moving this can cause serious injury if the lights are not canceling each other out.

as your post indicates you have not enough knowledge to do cable calculations i think you would be better to give this one a mis and do a bit more theory in college before you try of all things a workshop.if something went wrong you would be in prison and that would be an end to your carier.
if you believe you are capable then start off by reading bs7671
 

ian.settle1

-
Mentor
Arms
there is also something called sroboscopic effect ( my favourite word) where because of the unseen flickering of lights moving objects like lathes etc to the eye look like they are stationary when they areas above has in fact moving this can cause serious injury if the lights are not canceling each other out.

as your post indicates you have not enough knowledge to do cable calculations i think you would be better to give this one a mis and do a bit more theory in college before you try of all things a workshop.if something went wrong you would be in prison and that would be an end to your carier.
if you believe you are capable then start off by reading bs7671
No such thing if High Frequency fluorescents are used.:lol:
 

darkwood

Mod
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
My pennenth on stroboscopic effect is that it applies to rotating machinery not 'moving' as suggested as this would cover a larger scope, it applies to any inductive lighting that dosn't run on high frequency, but as well as fitting high frequency it is also ok to balance the lighting over different phases as an alternative method and on larger installs is the normally chosen method as it also balances loads and has less blackout effect in the event of a phase down.
 

Doomed

-
Arms
Mate, it seems the plumbers I work with have better electrical knowledge then you, don't attempt anything without skilled supervision please, for your sake and for the sake of those around you.
 

plugsandsparks

-
Arms
Esteemed
This has to be pretty hard to mess up, just bung the new lights in, cable from the new light to the nearest existing, jobs a gud un. Switch on and hey presto lots more light.
Is it any harder than that ?
 
1

1shortcircuit

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
When you say workshop are you on about a full working workshop of just someone double garage at the bottom of their garden?

What equipment is being used in the workshop?

Are the accesories appropriate for their location?

Is there RCD protection?

Is there bonding present? Are there other extreneous conductive parts that should be bonded ie structural steel?

What is the Main Earthing Arrangement, size of the tails and size of Main Earth, What's the Max demand of the installation?

What size cable is currently being used, what type, what size protective device is being used? Are the lights just provided via a FCU from the circuit that provides power to the sockets?

How far is the workshop away from the power supply, how is the power fed from the supply?

DOES THIS WORK REQUIRE SIGNING OFF IN ACCORDANCE WITH PART P OF THE BUILDING REGULATIONS?



My suggestion is this, find yourself a local spark. Explain that you have recently passed your exams and that you have a job that someone would like you to do and see if he would mind popping along to oversee what you do.

Even on the Electrical Trainee courses you do work with florescent lighting so perhaps this will explain why alarm bells are ringing in every post.

Good luck and congratulations on your recent success. As it was said to me, Start as you mean to go on. That means do the job properly and always do it properly :thumbsup
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
o/p, get a sparks in...watch what he does...dont be afraid to ask questions..he will probably respect the fact you are asking.....knowledge is power......
 

Reply to Fluorescent lighting circuit in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

SuperlecDirect - ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom