- Reaction score
- 17,087
So where are you taking your guidance from for consumer unit changes?
BS7671, it doesn't specifically tell you what to do when changing a CU, but it does tell you what is the current standard for safety.
Discuss No CPC in lighting circuits / Fire damage in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
So where are you taking your guidance from for consumer unit changes?
BS7671 18th ed is the current standard for safety. Ok, let's go circular. When changing a CU, does everything in the installation have to be to current regulations? No.BS7671, it doesn't specifically tell you what to do when changing a CU, but it does tell you what is the current standard for safety.
People seem to be placing too much faith in the Best Practice Guides. If the worst were to happen in a domestic scenario I suspect the only document which would play a part in any proceedings would be BS7671 and your interpretation of its requirements.
I take your point Westward, but I don't think the IET would allow the ESC produce a document which is essentially a guide, to print information that doesn't comply with BS 7671 or any other BS come to that.People seem to be placing too much faith in the Best Practice Guides. If the worst were to happen in a domestic scenario I suspect the only document which would play a part in any proceedings would be BS7671 and your interpretation of its requirements.
I also sort guidance when trying to understand the writings of BS7671.
Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 1, also gives some guidance; https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/1203/best-practice-guide-1-issue-3.pdf
Indent 10.7, if this is in a domestic property.
Those that are suggesting using double or reinforced insulation, and citing this guidance comes from Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 1, when used in a domestic property are incorrect.
This guide clearly states, 10.7;
It should be noted that the protective measure double or reinforced insulation is only applicable to installations or circuits therein that are under effective supervision in normal use to ensure no changes are made that would impair the effectiveness of the protective measure (reg 412.1.3)
Domestic and similar premises falling within the scope of this guide, cannot be considered to be under effective supervision.
So this guide clearly advises that you should not stick a yellow warning label on a CU and reenergise a lighting circuit without a cpc, in a domestic or similar premise.
I would suggest the only type of premise that double or reinforced insulation as a protective measure would apply to, is one under the management of a maintenance establishment or similar regime.
Bear in mind the title of the guide, "Replacing a consumer unit in domestic and similar premises."
10.7 of the guide does indeed say that. It backs up 10.1, "This guidance fully recognises that unearthed lighting circuits do not comply with BS 7671". It goes on to say:
10.4. Where the customer will not agree to one of the remedial measures described in section 10.3. of this Guide the customer should be advised that the circuit cannot be reconnected unless they agree to have all associated metallic or Class I fittings or accessories present replaced by all-insulated or Class II alternatives.
This is backed up by the flow chart on p14, which directly contradicts your comment "So this guide clearly advises that you should not stick a yellow warning label on a CU and reenergise a lighting circuit without a cpc, in a domestic or similar premise."
[automerge]1579351605[/automerge]
Here's the 'about' page for Electrical Safety First, the charity offering the guidance:
About Us | Electrical Safety First
We’re Electrical Safety First, the UK’s leading charity on electrical safety. We want to make sure that everyone in the UK can use electricity safely, and regulwww.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk
Formerly the Electrical Safety Council, they've been around for a long time, and seem to have evolved from the NICEIC:
Our History | Electrical Safety First
Our History Electrical Safety First (formerly the Electrical Safety Council, or ESC) is a registered UK charity working with all sectors of the electrical induswww.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk
I think it's reasonable to assume their guidance carries some weight in the industry
And in 10.7, it clearly advises that domestic properties or similar can not be deemed to be under effective supervision to allow the use of double or reinforced insulation as a protective measure.
So what is your interpretation of the wording in 10.7?By current regulations, yes. It's already been established many times that a circuit without a CPC does not meet current regulations. The guide takes account of this as per my previous post. We're not rewiring the circuit to current regulations, we're putting it back in use after a board change. It doesn't need to meet current regulations, it just needs to be safe for continued use.
Why would the guide go to all the trouble of detailing a risk assessment and flow chart, and then cryptically suggest it wouldn't comply with current regulations, but stop short of stating that you must not reconnect such circuits in domestic installations? It would be ludicrous.
That the circuit does not comply with current regulationsSo what is your interpretation of the wording in 10.7?
That the circuit does not comply with current regulations
Would you like to answer my above questions before you leave the discussion?I can’t be bothered arguing anymore.
So what is your interpretation of the wording in 10.7?
That the circuit does not comply with current regulations
Would you like to answer my above questions before you leave the discussion?
You answer mine, I'll answer yours
When doing an EICR, if you found a lighting circuit without CPC, with all insulated/class2 fittings what would you code it?
C1 immediate danger?
C2 Potential danger?
C3 Improvement recommended?
Based on that, would you give a unsatisfactory or satisfactory outcome?
Reply to No CPC in lighting circuits / Fire damage in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
We get it, advertisements are annoying!
Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.