Non Fire Rated Downlights

[madmaz]

Recently I installed numerous non fire rated Downlights in a property as supplied by the customer, the house was a 2 storey property open plan / open stairwell I had minimal hesitation in installing these with reference to guidance notes 5 which states that a floor of standard construction need not have fire rated fittings installed as it's not a fire rated ceiling, I obviously wouldn't fit such lights in a block of flats or 3 storey property, however today I have been told all Downlights must be fire rated no matter where they are installed is thus correct ?? I wish everything in this industry was set out in black and white where all contractors work to the same regs instead of all these contradictions ??? Any ones thoughts on non fire rated Downlights would be greatly appreciated !

thanks

madmaz

 

[davesparks]

So you read the officially published guidance note and made an informed decision based on this but now are uncertain because someone told you something different?
Who was this someone and what evidence did they use to back up their point?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Guidance note 5 is about protection against electric shock. Do you mean best practise guide 5 which is about electrical installations and their impact on the fire performance of buildings?

 

[madmaz]

Another electrician came in after me and stated that the house insurance is void due to the fact that all Downlights must be fire rated, which I can go along with in as much as fire rated fittings offer more protection but as I understand it the guidance states that if the construction is such that the floor won't collapse in a short space of time due to the fire then the fittings are ok (all led lamps as well) but from now on I'm just going to fit fire rated fittings to prevent any such comebacks !!

 

[madmaz]

Yes best practice guide sorry

 

[telectrix]

the guy that told you that is talking out of his arse. a single dwelling like a house that does not have other owned/tenanted properties above is a single fire compartment in it's own right, so non fire rated fittings are OK. the exception would be an integral garage with living accomodation above.

 

[madmaz]

Thanks that's exactly what I thought unless I've misinterpreted the regulations somewhere ? Anyhow from now on think I'll stick to fire rated fittings !!!

 

[stevethesparks]

Best practice guide 5 Page 9
Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety First

 

[madmaz]

That's the guide I used stating that non fire rated Downlights can be fitted if annex c is confirmed which it was, I think now though I'll refuse to fit non fire rated Downlights should the question be asked as most electricians will condemn them regardlessly

 

[stevethesparks]

I've always considered it good practice to fit fire rated in the downstairs rooms to maintain the plasterboard ceiling fire resisting properties, whereas the upstairs rooms (with no room above) would not require them.
I generally fit them as standard anyway now.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Recently I installed numerous non fire rated Downlights in a property as supplied by the customer, the house was a 2 storey property open plan / open stairwell I had minimal hesitation in installing these with reference to guidance notes 5 which states that a floor of standard construction need not have fire rated fittings installed as it's not a fire rated ceiling, I obviously wouldn't fit such lights in a block of flats or 3 storey property, however today I have been told all Downlights must be fire rated no matter where they are installed is thus correct ?? I wish everything in this industry was set out in black and white where all contractors work to the same regs instead of all these contradictions ??? Any ones thoughts on non fire rated Downlights would be greatly appreciated !

thanks

madmaz

I thought that Electrical Safety First who publishes the Best Practice Guides suggested to fit fire rated downlights. I have found the following but have not read the entire booklet :

Page 8 :

Section 7.2 ESF recommends that, wherever possible, downlighters having integral fire protection are selected for use in all ceilings where the lining that is to be penetrated is the sole means of keeping fire and heat out of the cavity.

It also says in :

Section 7.7 ESF recommends that downlighters installed in a ceiling beneath a roof space have integral fire protection...

It also shows in Table 1 (page 9) that ALL ceilings (apart from the roof ceiling which I presume means the roof itself if that has a ceiling popped on it) should have either a downlighter with integral protection or hood, although if the ceiling is classed as 'robust' and is on the first floor of a 2 storey house then an 'unprotected downlighter is permitted, but suitable fire protection is still recommended'. Also not needed but recommended for bungalows.

 

[davesparks]

Another electrician came in after me and stated that the house insurance is void due to the fact that all Downlights must be fire rated, which I can go along with in as much as fire rated fittings offer more protection but as I understand it the guidance states that if the construction is such that the floor won't collapse in a short space of time due to the fire then the fittings are ok (all led lamps as well) but from now on I'm just going to fit fire rated fittings to prevent any such comebacks !!

Did he provide any evidence to back up this statement?
You have already consulted official guidance in this matter and I'm sure could produce a copy of that to support your side of this. He is accusing you of something, the onus is on him to prove the allegation!
If he had walked in an stated that a new regulation required you to fit all sockets upside down would you also believe him without evidence?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Did he provide any evidence to back up this statement?
You have already consulted official guidance in this matter and I'm sure could produce a copy of that to support your side of this. He is accusing you of something, the onus is on him to prove the allegation!
If he had walked in an stated that a new regulation required you to fit all sockets upside down would you also believe him without evidence?

The OP has looked at best practise guide 5 not guidance note 5 which is protection against electric shock.

 

[7029 dave]

I've always considered it good practice to fit fire rated in the downstairs rooms to maintain the plasterboard ceiling fire resisting properties, whereas the upstairs rooms (with no room above) would not require them.
I generally fit them as standard anyway now.

Same as.

 

[madmaz]

As I say fire rated from now on there are far too many grey areas in this trade with everyone having differing opinions on what's the right way, I dare put money on the fact that the electrician who made the comment has fitted non fire rated downlights himself, and would be the same person to pass comments such as we'll love your house is going to burn down here because the electrician who retired your house has just buried the cables directly into the plaster without capping we need to chip away the plaster and install capping !! I'm probably just having a bad day I think

Thanks for the comments