Novice starting a Level 2 C&G 2365 Course in September

[Raymondo89]

Hi guys, this is my first post here.

So I'm 31 years old. Been in the same dead end job for 8 years now, which pays the bills and can go out once a week but little else really - and no real chance of progression. For the last few years I've been trying to figure out the best way to become a fully qualified electrician - I know a few people in the industry already, so may have an advantage of getting someone to take me on once I get qualified to the point where I need hands-on experience.

I'd looked at countless "training providers", promising to have me fully qualified in under a year, but they all appeared to be not far off scams. The ones I rang were very sales-pitchy and wanted to speak about my aspirations in life and convince my girlfriend to get on board via zoom meetings (all seemed fishy to me).

A friend of mine is a plumber, and was late into the trade in his early 20s, but went on evening courses at his local college and eventually got himself qualified and is now working on building sites. I'd like to do the same thing, but in the electrical trade.

So I've began the application process for an evening course at my local college - Level 2 C&G 2365 Electrical Installation. I understand it should take me about 9 months.

I would just like to know if anyone else on here has gone through the same (or similar) route, training to become an electrician whilst still working, and how their experience was and if they have any advice for me. Searching the internet yields no definitive process I need to take so whilst I feel somewhat informed I still feel like I'm winging it a bit.

Thanks for reading

Ray

 

[Lister1987]

I did my level 2 on the daytime around my office work and initially started level 3 (8202-30, not 2365 as funding for that latter was moved to the former) on days but had to transfer to nights; as a result a lot of the units were chopped from the classroom and put to the students to study and seek further assistance from the staff is needed.

Evenings require self-control and drive as without it you'll have a chuck of stuff not covered.

 

[telectrix]

Hi guys, this is my first post here.

So I'm 31 years old. Been in the same dead end job for 8 years now, which pays the bills and can go out once a week but little else really - and no real chance of progression. For the last few years I've been trying to figure out the best way to become a fully qualified electrician - I know a few people in the industry already, so may have an advantage of getting someone to take me on once I get qualified to the point where I need hands-on experience.

I'd looked at countless "training providers", promising to have me fully qualified in under a year, but they all appeared to be not far off scams. The ones I rang were very sales-pitchy and wanted to speak about my aspirations in life and convince my girlfriend to get on board via zoom meetings (all seemed fishy to me).

A friend of mine is a plumber, and was late into the trade in his early 20s, but went on evening courses at his local college and eventually got himself qualified and is now working on building sites. I'd like to do the same thing, but in the electrical trade.

So I've began the application process for an evening course at my local college - Level 2 C&G 2365 Electrical Installation. I understand it should take me about 9 months.

I would just like to know if anyone else on here has gone through the same (or similar) route, training to become an electrician whilst still working, and how their experience was and if they have any advice for me. Searching the internet yields no definitive process I need to take so whilst I feel somewhat informed I still feel like I'm winging it a bit.

Thanks for reading

Ray

your approach is the correct one.level 2 , then level 3. get a job as a sparks' mate for practical experience, complete a portfolio for NVQ3. once there, just AM2 and you'll be a qualified electrician, not a short course boil- in -the- bag domestic installer.

 

[Lister1987]

I did my level 2 on the daytime around my office work and initially started level 3 (8202-30, not 2365 as funding for that latter was moved to the former) on days but had to transfer to nights; as a result a lot of the units were chopped from the classroom and put to the students to study and seek further assistance from the staff is needed.

Evenings require self-control and drive as without it you'll have a chuck of stuff not covered.

Meant to add, if you can get onto an apprenticeship then you'd be in s better place overall as that portfolio and AM2S are done as part of it, saving some money.

If you're unable to take a cut in income them do that level 2 first and then try and flip to an apprenticeship, as you would then bypass the first Apprentice year and that lower wage and start as a Year 2 Apprentice on NMW for your age and not an apprentice wage.

 

[J00spark]

Ray

I'm 48, just finished 2365 Level 2 as a night course. I start Level 3 8202 in September. Best move I've ever made! Like you, I've been in the same job for 8 years and ready for a change. Our course was 3 nights a week 6-9pm. Some nights you'll want to chin it off; just eat, down some coffee and go in - don't miss any lessons. I had to, due to work sometimes, but kept it to a minimum. 22 of us started the course and 11 finished. Those 11, unsurprisingly, were the regulars.

I have done a complete 180. My job is not practical at all. As a result I was a bit slower on the practical side and better at the classroom. But I soon picked it up. For home study I used:

1. Course material
2. Youtube channels like GSH Electrical, and others that were purely maths
3. Exam simulators like Electrical Courses UK, Swindon Massive, and -----------
4. SWA cable to practice making it off at home

I've now got my CSCS card, IPAF 3a and 3b coming up, already had PTS card (not essential) , some tools, PPE, ECS card in August, and will start agency work once I get out of my current job.

Good Luck!

 

[testerjb862]

Ray

I'm 48, just finished 2365 Level 2 as a night course. I start Level 3 8202 in September. Best move I've ever made! Like you, I've been in the same job for 8 years and ready for a change. Our course was 3 nights a week 6-9pm. Some nights you'll want to chin it off; just eat, down some coffee and go in - don't miss any lessons. I had to, due to work sometimes, but kept it to a minimum. 22 of us started the course and 11 finished. Those 11, unsurprisingly, were the regulars.

I have done a complete 180. My job is not practical at all. As a result I was a bit slower on the practical side and better at the classroom. But I soon picked it up. For home study I used:

1. Course material
2. Youtube channels like GSH Electrical, and others that were purely maths
3. Exam simulators like Electrical Courses UK, Swindon Massive, and -----------
4. SWA cable to practice making it off at home

I've now got my CSCS card, IPAF 3a and 3b coming up, already had PTS card (not essential) , some tools, PPE, ECS card in August, and will start agency work once I get out of my current job.

Good Luck!

Hi Ray,

How did you find the night course?

Its exactly what I am looking for but struggling to find anything in my local area as my searches just bring up the standard paid courses ?

Thanks

 

[Lister1987]

Hi Ray,

How did you find the night course?

Its exactly what I am looking for but struggling to find anything in my local area as my searches just bring up the standard paid courses ?

Thanks

Try Heart of Worcester College.

Diploma in Electrical Installation, Level 2 | Heart of Worcestershire College

We offer an extensive range of Engineering courses including: Electrical Installation, Computer Aided Design, Mechanics, Manufacturing and many more..

www.howcollege.ac.uk

 

[J00spark]

Hi Ray,

How did you find the night course?

Its exactly what I am looking for but struggling to find anything in my local area as my searches just bring up the standard paid courses ?

Thanks

Sorry bud just seen this. I just applied to local college. Paid 1400 for Level 2, same for Level 3. Some courses are free, some are nearly double.

 

[Lister1987]

Sorry bud just seen this. I just applied to local college. Paid 1400 for Level 2, same for Level 3. Some courses are free, some are nearly double.

In theory the level 3 should be free given the recent funding changes.

 

[swaRRR]

Meant to add, if you can get onto an apprenticeship then you'd be in s better place overall as that portfolio and AM2S are done as part of it, saving some money.

Hmm would have to debate those maths Lister. It actually still works out more costly to do an apprenticeship especially if your firm starts you on minimum wage for the first year.

I ditched my apprenticeship and got a job as an improver and literally doubled my wages over night. It means i'm actually making 20 grand a year more which more than covers the training;

18th Edition - £300
T+I 2391 - £900
NVQ3 - £1500
AM2 - £950

Don't need to bother with the Level 2/3 since they don't really teach you anything of practical use. Granted i've been in construction my whole life so not a fresh starter like OP might be, but still.

OP, what sector are you currently in? If you're in construction/trades/anything handy like that then i'd become au fait with electrics as much as you can, then just lie on your CV and say you've been taking on basic non-notifiable work for years. Get your 18th edition and you could walk straight into a job on £14/15/hr.

 

[Lister1987]

Hmm would have to debate those maths Lister. It actually still works out more costly to do an apprenticeship especially if your firm starts you on minimum wage for the first year.

I ditched my apprenticeship and got a job as an improver and literally doubled my wages over night. It means i'm actually making 20 grand a year more which more than covers the training;

18th Edition - £300
T+I 2391 - £900
NVQ3 - £1500
AM2 - £950

Don't need to bother with the Level 2/3 since they don't really teach you anything of practical use. Granted i've been in construction my whole life so not a fresh starter like OP might be, but still.

OP, what sector are you currently in? If you're in construction/trades/anything handy like that then i'd become au fait with electrics as much as you can, then just lie on your CV and say you've been taking on basic non-notifiable work for years. Get your 18th edition and you could walk straight into a job on £14/15/hr.

I'd say it varies, you have to add into the equation the bias towards Apprenticeship candidates as opposed to those that have "front loaded" the knowledge but no experience.

You could save a Bob but that saving is worthless if you can't get the experience, which is why Apprenticeship is the better option.

Further to that if you skip level 2 and 3 as you're suggesting then your ONLY route to gold card would be the EWA/MCA - which is basically SHOWING you can do the job as the traditional NVQ requires the L2 and L3 as prerequisites, so ypu could find yourself in a position with a gold card but no actually knowing any underlying theory as to the WHY.

 

[swaRRR]

I'd say it varies, you have to add into the equation the bias towards Apprenticeship candidates as opposed to those that have "front loaded" the knowledge but no experience.

You could save a Bob but that saving is worthless if you can't get the experience, which is why Apprenticeship is the better option.

Further to that if you skip level 2 and 3 as you're suggesting then your ONLY route to gold card would be the EWA/MCA - which is basically SHOWING you can do the job as the traditional NVQ requires the L2 and L3 as prerequisites, so ypu could find yourself in a position with a gold card but no actually knowing any underlying theory as to the WHY.

Trust me when i say those hiring for site work don't care whether you did an apprenticeship or not, and they also don't care whether you have the levels 2 and 3.

If you have your 18th edition and some sort of experience you're going to be taken on, on double the wages an apprentice is on.

 

[willycdso]

Trust me when i say those hiring for site work don't care whether you did an apprenticeship or not, and they also don't care whether you have the levels 2 and 3.

If you have your 18th edition and some sort of experience you're going to be taken on, on double the wages an apprentice is on.

Yes, but would it not be beneficial for you to gain some knowledge as eg why we use 2.5/1.5 for sockets. I mean further down the line if you decide to go and work on a commercial installation wouldn't it help you?

 

[swaRRR]

Yes, but would it not be beneficial for you to gain some knowledge as eg why we use 2.5/1.5 for sockets. I mean further down the line if you decide to go and work on a commercial installation wouldn't it help you?

An apprenticeship is basically doing what you've already done at college (you'd have to do it again), alongside basically being taught little at work. In my experience apprentices learn by watching and copying, not by being explicitly taught at work. You can watch and copy as an improver on £15+ an hour.

You don't already know why we use 2.5 for sockets?

 

[willycdso]

An apprenticeship is basically doing what you've already done at college (you'd have to do it again), alongside basically being taught little at work. In my experience apprentices learn by watching and copying, not by being explicitly taught at work. You can watch and copy as an improver on £15+ an hour.

You don't already know why we use 2.5 for sockets?

I know why we use 2.5 i was just giving an example. I guess you have a different way to looking at it. I am nearing my completion of 2365 L3 the understanding I got from the course was a lot as to why we do something a certain way.

 

[swaRRR]

I know why we use 2.5 i was just giving an example. I guess you have a different way to looking at it. I am nearing my completion of 2365 L3 the understanding I got from the course was a lot as to why we do something a certain way.

But what i'm saying is 1. they're not worth anything since employers will just see you as a kid out of college with no experience and 2. you can find out the basics from the internet for free.

When all is said and done knowledge is great but we're in this to get paid work and doing the levels 2 and 3 and then chasing a very low paid apprenticeship is the wrong way to go about it for an adult imo.

An apprenticeship is nowadays just an excuse for an employer to low ball your wages for 3 years. They are certainly not what they used to be when they were 5 years of intense training under men who knew what they were doing.

I'd concentrate on learning practical skills.

The absolute essentials:

• Learn how to safely isolate and how to test for dead circuits.
• Learn how to pull cable properly, leaving good lengths with not too much wastage and without ever leaving them short.
• Learn how to contain cables with tray and trunking, and learn how to clip cables.
• Learn how to feed cable properly - through joists, brick walls, under floors, buried, clipped direct.
• Learn how to strip cable with a pair of side cutters. Practice leaving the outer sheathing inside the enclosure but leave enough wire length to 1. terminate properly and 2. make sure there's enough slack should you need to re-terminate/move the wires.
• Learn how to drill and plug. Plasterboard and solid walls.
• Learn how to fit back boxes, plasterboard and solid walls.
• Learn how to read schematics and drawings.
• Practice getting things level and plumb.
• Practice terminating in sockets and lights, both taking the feed to the light and the feed to the switch. Which cable will you need? Future proofing?
• Learn about DC. Will be important with the amount of green energy being planned.

That should cover most of the basics and will make you very employable. Also get a CSCS card at a minimum but ideally an ECS card (these are basically exactly the same, a con to take money off people for working on site) and an IPAF licence if you're working commercially/industrially.

The basics of your attitude are also very important. Turn up on time, pay attention, preempt what your guy might need before he asks you for it, be neat and tidy, and SHOW UP WHEN YOU SAY YOU'LL SHOW UP. And very important is DO NOT USE YOUR PHONE AT WORK. Super duper important.

 

[willycdso]

But what i'm saying is 1. they're not worth anything since employers will just see you as a kid out of college with no experience and 2. you can find out the basics from the internet for free.

When all is said and done knowledge is great but we're in this to get paid work and doing the levels 2 and 3 and then chasing a very low paid apprenticeship is the wrong way to go about it for an adult imo.

An apprenticeship is nowadays just an excuse for an employer to low ball your wages for 3 years. They are certainly not what they used to be when they were 5 years of intense training under men who knew what they were doing.

I'd concentrate on learning practical skills.

The absolute essentials:

• Learn how to safely isolate and how to test for dead circuits.
• Learn how to pull cable properly, leaving good lengths with not too much wastage and without ever leaving them short.
• Learn how to contain cables with tray and trunking, and learn how to clip cables.
• Learn how to feed cable properly - through joists, brick walls, under floors, buried, clipped direct.
• Learn how to strip cable with a pair of side cutters. Practice leaving the outer sheathing inside the enclosure but leave enough wire length to 1. terminate properly and 2. make sure there's enough slack should you need to re-terminate/move the wires.
• Learn how to drill and plug. Plasterboard and solid walls.
• Learn how to fit back boxes, plasterboard and solid walls.
• Learn how to read schematics and drawings.
• Practice getting things level and plumb.
• Practice terminating in sockets and lights, both taking the feed to the light and the feed to the switch. Which cable will you need? Future proofing?
• Learn about DC. Will be important with the amount of green energy being planned.

That should cover most of the basics and will make you very employable. Also get a CSCS card at a minimum but ideally an ECS card (these are basically exactly the same, a con to take money off people for working on site) and an IPAF licence if you're working commercially/industrially.

The basics of your attitude are also very important. Turn up on time, pay attention, preempt what your guy might need before he asks you for it, be neat and tidy, and SHOW UP WHEN YOU SAY YOU'LL SHOW UP. And very important is DO NOT USE YOUR PHONE AT WORK. Super duper important.

Your right about chasing apprenticeship after doing 2365 not really helpful at all. I am looking to apply for ECS and IPAF card at the end of my 2365. Thanks for some pointer there.

 

[UNG]

An apprenticeship is basically doing what you've already done at college (you'd have to do it again), alongside basically being taught little at work. In my experience apprentices learn by watching and copying, not by being explicitly taught at work. You can watch and copy as an improver on £15+ an hour.

If I was working with an improver who was doing watch and copy they wouldn't be watching and copying me for very long in my book an improver is someone who is combining their college learning and site experience to improve their skills post apprenticeship more than likely on their own with a limited amount of supervision

You don't already know why we use 2.5 for sockets?

But we don't always use 2.5mm² for sockets

 

[swaRRR]

If I was working with an improver who was doing watch and copy they wouldn't be watching and copying me for very long in my book an improver is someone who is combining their college learning and site experience to improve their skills post apprenticeship more than likely on their own with a limited amount of supervision

Anyone who picks up skills does it from either watching and copying, asking questions, or from trial and error.

I speak to a lot of agencies and their definition of an improver is someone who can do the basics of the job but might need a little more guidance because they lack experience. They are also in possession of some qualifications eg 18th edition, testing and inspection. Otherwise they class you as a mate which is basically an electrical labourer.

They're obviously not watching how you strip wire or fix up a plug socket but they might need to ask more often 'i need to do XYZ, how would you do it?'.

If you remember my first post on here was about how to finish off SWA into a building. I knew you could use wiska boxes but wondered if anyone had done it straight into because although i've done lots of SWA work it's always been in a commercial setting ie running in off tray. I'd never done it on a domestic property before and so hence the question. 'Improver' just means you have the skills but lack to experience imo.

But we don't always use 2.5mm² for sockets

Never said we did. You can quite easily use 1.5mm for sockets or even 4mm.