Off the gas grid ...

[Dustydazzler]

Really ... how likely is this to actually happen

New homes to be built off gas grid from 2025 under Government plans

All new homes could be built off the gas grid by 2025 under new plans being considered by the Government to remove fossil fuels from the heating sector. The installation of gas boilers in existing homes is likely to be phased out by the ‘mid-2030s’, according to the new energy white paper. The...

uk.yahoo.com

 

[marconi]

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/productinfo/worcester-bosch/greenstar-24ri-regular-gas-boiler#:~:text=What's%20the%20output%20rating%3F,for%20heating%20and%20hot%20water.

Our home has a W-B Greenstar boiler providing 24kW of heat output for water heating and space heating. The W-B range of boilers have power outputs between 9-24kW. There are about 28 million homes in the UK. I leave it to you to work out if the current electricity supply and distribution system could cope in lieu of gas.

 

[James]

an estimate of 10kw to maintain the heat in an average home (probably around 3 times that to raise the temp from 10 to 20 degrees in an hour)

so your average home 1 hour warm up in morning,1 hour at temp. off for 8 hours
1 hour warm up in afternoon, 5 hours at temp, off for 9 hours

in every 24h period
2 hours at 30kw = 60kwh
6 hours holding temp at 10kw=60kwh
120kwh per day per house
or if a form of local storage could be used to average the load over a 24h period a 5kw constant load over the winter months for every house.

aproximatley 140 million kw (140 Gigawatts) of constant load to the grid

to put that in perspective, yesterday the uk electrical consumption averaged 37GW

Live monitoring of the UK electricity National Grid (gridwatch.co.uk)

 

[James]

p.s I hope the numbers are not out by a factor of 1000, very big numbers to be working with, easy to make a mistake!!

 

[pirate]

Interesting point indeed. Recent JW video asked if the system could cope with many more EV chargers for the increasing number of electric cars etc. Seems like it could but gas back-up may be crucial. Add in no more gas heating boilers, and thus more gas is available to top up the supply of electricity. I am a fan of electric heating, for many reasons, but to ask someone to change fuels after they have recently installed a new combi gas boiler is going to take some effort. I do not claim to have the answers, but I do look forward to this discussion because it is important for fuel usage in the future.
Just to get the jokes out of the way, many electricians would love it if heating engineers working with gas suddenly lost all their business...but that isn't going to happen anytime soon! I am sure we will have a good debate...

 

[DPG]

Interesting point indeed. Recent JW video asked if the system could cope with many more EV chargers for the increasing number of electric cars etc. Seems like it could but gas back-up may be crucial. Add in no more gas heating boilers, and thus more gas is available to top up the supply of electricity. I am a fan of electric heating, for many reasons, but to ask someone to change fuels after they have recently installed a new combi gas boiler is going to take some effort. I do not claim to have the answers, but I do look forward to this discussion because it is important for fuel usage in the future.
Just to get the jokes out of the way, many electricians would love it if heating engineers working with gas suddenly lost all their business...but that isn't going to happen anytime soon! I am sure we will have a good debate...

Pretty sure you won't be expected to rip out a recently fitted combi boiler. It will be new builds not having them, and then probably no new gas boilers allowed as replacements for faulty devices.

 

[pirate]

Sure, I agree with that view. However I do agree with new-builds not having gas installed.

 

[James]

increasing grid capacity by a factor of 5 is an incredible challenge.
however that figure is required to change all existing heating, (solid fuel, gas, oil etc.) also not taking into account the homes that are already heated by electricity.

it suggests only new builds will be made off gas grid, they are not suggesting turning off the pipes to everyone else at the moment.

because of the losses in production and transportation of electricity, it may be that a combination of local CHP and electric boosting where required might be a plausible idea, especially in towns and cities.

 

[pirate]

This will favour electricians, and that's not a bad thing, but it shouldn't be a cause for gloating

 

[OnlQQker]

Woah, that's heavy!

 

[James]

Woah, that's heavy!

funny how sometimes the past has echoes of the future!!!!

 

[ferg]

I thought this was for new homes. Highly insulated and likely to be using ASHP.

 

[Zerax]

...but to ask someone to change fuels after they have recently installed a new combi gas boiler is going to take some effort.

I think it's the sale of new ones... so if you already have one, and it works... then you can still use it. If your existing boiler is broken and beyond economic repair... then yes... you'll struggle to find a new one. Although I suspect a black market in gas boilers might emerge ??

 

[Zerax]

Given that's it's perfectly possible to build a house that so well insulated you don't really need any heating... it's shameful that the UK continues to build the appalling carp that every town seems to be blighted with these days.

The problem though is the public opinion driven by the media... if the government radically increased the building regulations tomorrow such that the price of a new house went up by 10%... we'd have scenes reminiscent of the poll tax riots of 1990 !

 

[Zerax]

in every 24h period
2 hours at 30kw = 60kwh
6 hours holding temp at 10kw=60kwh
120kwh per day per house

In my 2 bed flat... I averaged 9.7kWh per day for the last 12 months... that's all electric, no gas and no EV charging.

 

[Zerax]

There was something I caught on the radio the other day... about using hydrogen instead of natural gas. I was only half listening, but I think they can do this already... and convert existing boilers to use hydrogen, similar to the town gas to natural gas conversion I imagine.

We just need to work out how we can produce enough hydrogen without using fossil fuels ?

 

[James]

In my 2 bed flat... I averaged 9.7kWh per day for the last 12 months... that's all electric, no gas and no EV charging.

so a flat is likely to use less heating than an average house.
what do you average over the winter months?
I personally use 2 to 2.5 x as much over winter as i do in summer.

your consumption is something to be proud of.
but is in my opinion no where near the national average.

 

[Zerax]

so a flat is likely to use less heating than an average house.
what do you average over the winter months?
I personally use 2 to 2.5 x as much over winter as i do in summer.

your consumption is something to be proud of.
but is in my opinion no where near the national average.

 

[Zerax]

your consumption is something to be proud of.

Thanks... I also use a fraction of the national average for water consumption too... I think it was living on a boat for a while that did it... when you have to make your own water and electricity, you tend to be careful how you use it !

 

[R-fur]

We just need to work out how we can produce enough hydrogen without using fossil fuels ?

To make hydrogen you need electricity and seawater. Hydrogen production is an ideal way of using surplus electricity from wind turbines when demand is low.

 

[Wilko]

My quick thought - Leccie Cars and Leccie Heating may be a “quart in a pint bottle” with our existing buildings and infrastructure. We get home, plug in NoddyCar, turn on the heating and listen to the distant groans of large rotating machines slowing down ..

 

[marcuswareham]

I think heat pump are the way it will be going, air source or ground source. The price to buy them is already falling alot and with gas being phased out more manufacturers could pop up and prices fall. In a heat pump some electricity is used to run a compressor some valves and control gear so much much less electricity than a heating element.

I dont have gas at my house and my house is heated by logs, but i cant imagine that being the future

Maybe economy 7 will be re-promoted (with some new better storage heaters) (works absolutely fine for water, thats how mine is heated) , and with the plans to commission a new nuclear power plat that means more surplus electricity at night time. With electric cars also charging over night perhaps our useage patterns will shift, Also in the past gas central heating was less common and many homes had electric heating normally storage heaters did the grid cope then? Although at that time a open coal fire was alot more common for a heat boost also

 

[Zerax]

To make hydrogen you need electricity and seawater. Hydrogen production is an ideal way of using surplus electricity from wind turbines when demand is low.

Yeah... electrolysis... I remember doing that at school and hearing the pop! as you ignited the hydrogen you'd captured in the test tube.

But I don't think that process is currently used for commercial production... it's made from blowing high pressure steam into natural gas... so it's not really that 'green'.

 

[Zerax]

I dont have gas at my house and my house is heated by logs, but i cant imagine that being the future

I think it's interesting that 'coppicing' (growing trees specifically for making firewood) is actually very environmentally friendly... as the CO2 that is released when they are burnt is simply the CO2 that was absorbed over the last 7 years of the trees growth cycle. The only drawback with this is that each house would need a few acres of coppice...

 

[Mike Johnson]

In Kent the majority of Chestnut coppiced goes to make hop poles and fencing, small branches that can't be used are normally burnt where they fell, other than that any bent timber that can't be used for fencing or longer poles is chipped and mostly sent abroad to make pellets for burning, but this is a by product of the main use of Chestnut. Chestnut Coppicing – An ancient Kentish tradition. - http://www.doddingtonplacegardens.co.uk/chestnut-coppicing/

 

[GBDamo]

Really ... how likely is this to actually happen

New homes to be built off gas grid from 2025 under Government plans

All new homes could be built off the gas grid by 2025 under new plans being considered by the Government to remove fossil fuels from the heating sector. The installation of gas boilers in existing homes is likely to be phased out by the ‘mid-2030s’, according to the new energy white paper. The...

uk.yahoo.com

"Could" = won't.


(Apologise for accidentally reporting your post)

 

[Electrics]

I for one can't wait to pay 4 times more for heating up my water, it's better because climate or something.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Yes it's going to be the same old scenario as the diesel car fiasco, you must go diesel for you next car as it environmentally better for the planet, then once you do, increase the tax on the fuel, Oh and while I am at it I will sell off all our Gold reserves.