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Self employed individuals. No staff. Are they expected to have PAT Testing? Have seen online that they are expected to have it to be compliant. Would like to find were it officially states this if the case.
 
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ipf

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Arms
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Depends what job you do and your qualifications.
If you're a spark and need that you're well short of qualified.
 

Pete999

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Arms
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Self employed individuals. No staff. Are they expected to have PAT Testing? Have seen online that they are expected to have it to be compliant. Would like to find were it officially states this if the case.
If you are an Electrician, self employed, and you need to know if your portable tools are safe to use, then give up.
 
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Looking to become more qualified. Hence the post on a Forum. Im a certified PAT Tester as of January. Is this not a site for asking such questions? If not could you direct me towards a more suitable forum site please. I’m looking for actual answers not criticism.
 
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I think you misunderstood. I’m not referring to my tools. My tools, and equipment are fine.
I’ve asked a self employed individual if he needs a pat tester who has said he doesn’t need PAT Testing as he has no employees.
Am I writing the initial post wrong or something.
 
D

Deleted member 105166

Martin, chill out buddy, everyone on here is trying to help you. Keep asking questions and you will learn loads. Don't be scared to ask what you think may be a stupid question - no question is stupid and you can bet there are others that will be grateful you've asked it as they didn't want to! I certainly have learned a lot in a year or so here, my experience is in a fairly niche sector (temp power) so I joined primarily to further my knowledge of the more mainstream stuff.
 
D

Deleted member 105166

I’ve asked a self employed individual if he needs a pat tester who has said he doesn’t need PAT Testing as he has no employees.
Depends on the circumstances, in many cases "yes".
If a self employed individual owns electrical tools / equipment that he takes on site or uses in his own business premises, then ISITEE would be the usual way to show due diligence in so far as complying with the EAW regulations.
If a self employed individual only uses electrical equipment that he/she hires or the equipment is provided at the place of work, then the ISITEE would not be the responsibility of the individual, although if hiring, he/she may ask for proof of testing to take onto certain sites.
 
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  • #8
Ok. I’m trying to ask questions but I’m being told such things as I’m far from qualified, and to give up. This isn’t helpful.
 

ipf

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Arms
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I think you misunderstood. I’m not referring to my tools. My tools, and equipment are fine.
I’ve asked a self employed individual if he needs a pat tester who has said he doesn’t need PAT Testing as he has no employees.
Am I writing the initial post wrong or something.
It depends on his clients.
eg. I know a DJ and someone who does dance classes. Both need their equipment up to standard because some require certified equipment for the premises in which they are being used.
 
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  • #11
In this particular instance. I’m referring to a company of one person, who works within his his own rented property within a larger building, who uses power tools to carry out repairs. Would he need to PAT Test his appliances or is he not required as he has no employees.
 
There is no legal requirement for PATesting. The legislation which must be followed are Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, The Provision and Use Work Regulations 1998 and The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.
One way to satisfy some of this is PATesting but it is not the only way to satisfy this legislation. These Regulations apply to one person enterprises as well as any other business.
 

ipf

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There is no legal requirement for PATesting. The legislation which must be followed are Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, The Provision and Use Work Regulations 1998 and The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.
One way to satisfy some of this is PATesting but it is not the only way to satisfy this legislation. These Regulations apply to one person enterprises as well as any other business.
…...in many cases, it's on the instruction of their insurance provider.
 
D

Deleted member 105166

…...in many cases, it's on the instruction of their insurance provider.
^^^ This.
Within the mobile entertainment industry, bands and DJs performing at hotels, golf clubs, community halls, etc. are asked for a copy of their public liability insurance and proof of PAT. If they cannot provide it, they won't be allowed to play there. This is generally a requirement of the venue's insurer.
 
D

Deleted member 105166

Where would I find it Please.
This may help.

Martin, as I mentioned in another thread, you would benefit from taking the 2377-32 exam, as this covers the management requirements for maintenance of equipment, which most of your questions seem to be about.
IIRC, you indicated the course you took recently gave you a competency certificate, but not a C&G 2377-22 qualification.
Have a look at the 2377-22 and 2377-32 combined courses available. Also, as you've indicated you are competent from the training and test you took, definitely do some actual testing before you go on the C&G, even if it's just appliances at home. It will make better sense of everything for you and give you questions to ask that you won't think of from the classroom alone.
 
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There is no legal requirement for PATesting. The legislation which must be followed are Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, The Provision and Use Work Regulations 1998 and The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.
One way to satisfy some of this is PATesting but it is not the only way to satisfy this legislation. These Regulations apply to one person enterprises as well as any other business.

Is this stated somewhere
 

123

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Arms
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I hate PAT Testing. I offer it as a bolt on to existing customers but I do a little jump of joy if they bring in a standalone company to do it for them instead.

The prices that many of the PAT companies charge per item I couldn't get near to competing with anyway (60-100p an item).
 
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  • #25
It just makes it hard moving forward. I don’t want to miss advise anyone or exploited anyone. It’s down to the individual to chose whether they want the service carried out. But if I’m saying they should, then I’d need to be able to show them in black and white why. Most people will not spend money if they can get away with it.
Different sites have it worded slightly different. The previous post said these regulations apply to single person enterprises as well as any other business.
Then the link Posted words it different. Then the last post of the link from the HSE website says it MAY be necessary.
 

123

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Arms
Esteemed
From @Devonchris HSE link: The complainant queried if the law had been changed for Portable Appliance Testing to be undertaken on double insulated items, such as kettles, in low risk environments such as offices.

Well...I've yet to see a Double Insulated Kettle. Not sure if many if any exist. Poor information from the HSE there.
 
Hello Everyone

I think the preliminary question might be better put as:

Does the Health and Safety at Work legislation apply to a self-employed person?

Answer this one as yes and you accept the need to protect yourself and those around you, your principal, duty of care.

Then you realise that making sure your tools are safe to use in your work is a responsibility you must Accept. As we know, the schemes and employers expect you to make an onsite Risk Assessment each time you arrive on a job.

Then, when you get into appliance testing, you learn that registers and logs are part of the management side and a preliminary visual check and checking your cables for nicks are part of daily practice.

Regards
 

ipf

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Mentor
Arms
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Hello Everyone
Does the Health and Safety at Work legislation apply to a self-employed person?

Answer this one as yes and you accept the need to protect yourself and those around you, your principal, duty of care.

Then you realise that making sure your tools are safe to use in your work is a responsibility you must Accept. As we know, the schemes and employers expect you to make an onsite Risk Assessment each time you arrive on a job.

Then, when you get into appliance testing, you learn that registers and logs are part of the management side and
a preliminary visual check and checking your cables for nicks are part of daily practice.

Regards
and it all just leads to people making money out of others' 'common dense'...….
 

pirate

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Arms
Esteemed
" Hello Pirate, I've got a new tenant coming in next week. Can you come and do the PAT testing (sic)"

"Yes, of course...what have you got?"

"Oh, just a kettle, microwave, toaster, oven and hob...and maybe 6 table lamps, stuff like that".

"Why do you want me to come and test them?"

"Because I want to be able to demonstrate that I have at least tried to make sure they are safe for the tenant to use"

"OK, fair enough. I'll need to do a full risk assessment, including PA testing of my drill in case I need to use it to make some holes in the walls"

"WHAT???"

"Can't have it blowing up and killing us both, can I?"

"Are you serious. Pirate?"

"No! I'll do it myself, and as I don't employ anyone else, I can just get on with it...but you will have to stay at a safe distance, obviously"

"Whew! I was a bit worried there! So, you will come round and test these items so that they are safe to use? That's it?"

"Yup, just like that!"

"May I ask how much it will cost?"

"Of course! You are half an hour away, you have maybe a dozen items to test, assuming no problems, maybe an hour...how about £80?. I'll do the paperwork in the evening and email you the results, but I'll sticker the passes at the time."

"How about £50?"

"Oh...what's the rent?"

" £1500/month"

"No"
 
In this particular instance. I’m referring to a company of one person, who works within his his own rented property within a larger building, who uses power tools to carry out repairs. Would he need to PAT Test his appliances or is he not required as he has no employees.
It's hard to answer this one with certainty. The Health and Safety at Work Act, The Using Electric Equipment Regs etc. make it clear that ALL electrical equipment used for work must be safe. That's everything from the mains supply transformer in the street outside, to the hand dryer in the loo. What is not quite so cut and dried is what needs to be done. There are guide lines from IET (4TH Ed) that say office equipment (as that's what I understand your friend uses) of Class I should be tested and inspected every 2 years. But it is only guidance. As he or she only ones a duty of care to themselves they can get away with not following the guidance. They can be sensible and do regular visual inspection and feel safe.
HOWEVER
If their electrical equipment is used in interaction with the PUBLIC that makes all the difference. Do they have visitors who make themselves a brew? A cleaner using a vacuum? A sales rep using a hand dryer?
In these cases they owe a duty of care. In these cases, they must ensure all electrical equipment is safe.
How do you do that!? You inspect. You keep a register. You test.
Hope that helps
 
In this particular instance. I’m referring to a company of one person, who works within his his own rented property within a larger building, who uses power tools to carry out repairs. Would he need to PAT Test his appliances or is he not required as he has no employees.
It's hard to answer this one with certainty. The Health and Safety at Work Act, The Using Electric Equipment Regs etc. make it clear that ALL electrical equipment used for work must be safe. That's everything from the mains supply transformer in the street outside, to the hand dryer in the loo. What is not quite so cut and dried is what needs to be done. There are guide lines from IET (4TH Ed) that say office equipment (as that's what I understand your friend uses) of Class I should be tested and inspected every 2 years. But it is only guidance. As he or she only owes a duty of care to themselves they can get away with not following the guidance. They can be sensible and do regular visual inspection and feel safe.
HOWEVER
If their electrical equipment is used in interaction with the PUBLIC that makes all the difference. Do they have visitors who make themselves a brew? A cleaner using a vacuum? A sales rep using a hand dryer?
In these cases they owe a duty of care. In these cases, they must ensure all electrical equipment is safe.
How do you do that!? You inspect. You keep a register. You test.
Hope that helps
 

ipf

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
and it all just leads to people making money out of others' 'common dense'...….
…...especially if they're using dimwits to do their testing.
Judging by one earlier 'dislike', we've already got one involved.:rolleyes:
 
From HSE 'PAT - Portable appliance testing FAQs'

'The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition. However, the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually)'.
They leave it quite open for them but will be ready to catch you it it goes wrong.;)
 

Pete999

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Arms
Esteemed
It's hard to answer this one with certainty. The Health and Safety at Work Act, The Using Electric Equipment Regs etc. make it clear that ALL electrical equipment used for work must be safe. That's everything from the mains supply transformer in the street outside, to the hand dryer in the loo. What is not quite so cut and dried is what needs to be done. There are guide lines from IET (4TH Ed) that say office equipment (as that's what I understand your friend uses) of Class I should be tested and inspected every 2 years. But it is only guidance. As he or she only owes a duty of care to themselves they can get away with not following the guidance. They can be sensible and do regular visual inspection and feel safe.
HOWEVER
If their electrical equipment is used in interaction with the PUBLIC that makes all the difference. Do they have visitors who make themselves a brew? A cleaner using a vacuum? A sales rep using a hand dryer?
In these cases they owe a duty of care. In these cases, they must ensure all electrical equipment is safe.
How do you do that!? You inspect. You keep a register. You test.
Hope that helps
Thought so
 
getting the equipment inspected and tested in a timely manor is a common sense measure (preferably by someone other than yourself) especially if your equipment is insured
this reason being my equipment is insured and even though i can inspect and repair equipment many insurance companies will not accept a self inspection.
 

oracle

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Arms
Esteemed
" Hello Pirate, I've got a new tenant coming in next week. Can you come and do the PAT testing (sic)"

"Yes, of course...what have you got?"

"Oh, just a kettle, microwave, toaster, oven and hob...and maybe 6 table lamps, stuff like that".

"Why do you want me to come and test them?"

"Because I want to be able to demonstrate that I have at least tried to make sure they are safe for the tenant to use"

"OK, fair enough. I'll need to do a full risk assessment, including PA testing of my drill in case I need to use it to make some holes in the walls"

"WHAT???"

"Can't have it blowing up and killing us both, can I?"

"Are you serious. Pirate?"

"No! I'll do it myself, and as I don't employ anyone else, I can just get on with it...but you will have to stay at a safe distance, obviously"

"Whew! I was a bit worried there! So, you will come round and test these items so that they are safe to use? That's it?"

"Yup, just like that!"

"May I ask how much it will cost?"

"Of course! You are half an hour away, you have maybe a dozen items to test, assuming no problems, maybe an hour...how about £80?. I'll do the paperwork in the evening and email you the results, but I'll sticker the passes at the time."

"How about £50?"

"Oh...what's the rent?"

" £1500/month"

"No"
I’ll do it for £50 so how about I can rent the property for £1000/month?
 
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