Programmer close to sink

[stratplus]

Thoughts on this?

 

[Octopus]

Nice tidy kitchen. Nothing in the regs against it!

 

[richy3333]

Neet tiling and a clean sink. I'd hazard a guess the customer regularly uses bleach on that sink ��

 

[bigspark17]

Isit a 240v programmer.! If so id say that it needs to be >300mm from edge of sink.!

 

[Octopus]

Isit a 240v programmer.! If so id say that it needs to be >300mm from edge of sink.!

Reg number??

 

[stratplus]

Isit a 240v programmer.! If so id say that it needs to be >300mm from edge of sink.!

240v it is

 

[bigspark17]

Electrical apperateus segregated from non electrical services.! So you'd put it there murd..?

 

[Octopus]

If it was a socket it would be a c2

 

[davesparks]

Electrical apperateus segregated from non electrical services.! So you'd put it there murd..?

It's segregated from the other services, it's not a cable strapped to a gas pipe or anything like that is it?

Nobody has said they would install it like that themselves, just that you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to condemn it.

 

[bigdavs83]

Not a place I would fit it however the guideline is 300mm horizontally from the drain point. Note the word guideline it's not a regulation.

 

[davesparks]

Where does that guideline come from?

 

[bigspark17]

I would be checking the manufactures guidlines too.. Id be very suprised if they allow yheir equipment to be installed directly above a sink.! Id be c2 that in an eicr

 

[bigdavs83]

BS 7671 does not specify any minimum distance for socket-outlets to be from a sink. However, regulation 512.2.1 requires external influences to be considered when selecting equipment for a particular location. Accessories used in domestic installations are not designed to be splashed and therefore not suitable for installation close to a sink or draining board. For this reason, it is recommended that socket-outlets and other accessories should be located at least 300 mm, measured horizontally, from a sink or draining board, where they are less likely to get splashed.

Straight from the ECA website.

Doesn't say guideline but does say recommendation davesparks will this pass?!

 

[Geordie Spark]

If it was a socket it would be a c2

Aye ... and it would have three funny shaped holes punched in the front of it an' all.

 

[leep82]

how do you upload your images? Ive got some on iphone that id like to share

 

[stratplus]

how do you upload your images? Ive got some on iphone that id like to share

I just push the camera icon when writing a new post and my photo gallery comes up.

 

[Badged01]

..... Straight from the ECA website. Doesn't say guideline but does say recommendation ......

Also 300mm is guidance in the likes of the IET publication "electricians guide to the building regs".

The trouble with any form of guidance/recommendation (which is effectively what BS7671 does) is that you don't need to follow it and provided nothing goes wrong all is tickty boot.

However, once something goes wrong and you are in a court of law then you will have to justify technically why you didn't follow the recommendations given by the authoritative electrical bodies (IET, ECA etc ....). Which is a big ask for a humble tradesman when the electrical bodies wheel out their 'experts' to give evidence as to why it should have been followed.

For anyone who has not been there its a harrowing experience to see a colleague shot to pieces when an 'expert witness' gives his view to a court of law .....

 

[Geoffsd]

Quite a good defence might be that the sink was not there when the programmer was installed.

 

[Badged01]

Quite a good defence might be that the sink was not there when the programmer was installed.

That would be an excellent defence :clap: ...... proving it might be interesting though!

 

[bigspark17]

Nice posts dave83.! I can see how the sink cud have been put in afterwards but if ur eicr the premesis you still have to code it your assesing the current syate of the installation!

 

[Badged01]

Yes, when the sink was put in doesn't effect the EICR code, you judge it as you see it when inspecting and decide if its safe or not.

But if you were the 'electrician' who installed it before the sink was put there then there shouldn't be any comeback on you for bad workmanship ........ if you can prove that was the case. Depending on what legislation you are prosecuted under you can be assumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

However, there would have to have been a pretty nasty incident/accident for any prosecution to be forthcoming!!

 

[uksparks]

Isit a 240v programmer.! If so id say that it needs to be >300mm from edge of sink.!

That's building regs not BS7671 regs

 

[Badged01]

That's building regs not BS7671 regs

The problem is that regs such as 512.2.1 requires that the effect of external influences be considered on equipment being used. Guidance then in support of this suggest that within 300mm is considered unsuitable.

Ultimately you as the inspector have to decided if water and electricity can mix in this instance and be considered safe for continued use ...... personally Id be covering my ar*e and saying its not and coding appropriately!!