Quals needed

[Luke105]

Someone please explain.

what is required to do your own work. Example, rewire a house and sign off new board etc.
At present my only qualifications are Part P and 18th edition. I’m only interested in domestic, not commercial/3 phase etc.
I’m willing to join a electrical contractor company to gain as much experience as possible so don’t worry I’m not trying to go out chancing with a van!
Any help much appreciated. Thanks

 

[telectrix]

apply to niceic or napit to be able to do notifiable works legally. they will tell you what they need for membership.

 

[Luke105]

I’ll ask the direct question then. Can’t seem to find an answer online. Some say level 3nvq. Some course providers do full domestic installer courses with no mention of an Nvq.

 

[nicebutdim]

NVQ level 3 would be achieved at the end of a 4 year apprenticeship or after completing C&G/EAL lvl 2&3 colege course and then completing your portfolio. No domestic installer course will achieve the same outcome.

 

[catdog1121]

NVQ level 3 would be achieved at the end of a 4 year apprenticeship or after completing C&G/EAL lvl 2&3 colege course and then completing your portfolio. No domestic installer course will achieve the same outcome.

Yep.. There is domestic installer and then there is approved contractor, domestic installer is supposed to be for people doing electrical work as part of another business like kitchen fitter etc but in reality I don't think there are any differences in what you can notify but not really sure as have nvq lvl 3 etc..

Take a look at Napit, they have a guide of what quals they will accept.

 

[Luke105]

Yep.. There is domestic installer and then there is approved contractor, domestic installer is supposed to be for people doing electrical work as part of another business like kitchen fitter etc but in reality I don't think there are any differences in what you can notify but not really sure as have nvq lvl 3 etc..

Take a look at Napit, they have a guide of what quals they will accept.

This is probably more the route I’d likely need to go down.

I’m 34 with a family, mortgage etc so apprenticeship would not suit so need a better option. Hence the route of domestic installer only.

 

[catdog1121]

This is probably more the route I’d likely need to go down.

I’m 34 with a family, mortgage etc so apprenticeship would not suit so need a better option. Hence the route of domestic installer only.

To be honest its not really the qualifications is about experience. Are you going to start as self employed? I would suggest do the 2391-52 course so you can do EICR's as if you are self employed there is a bit of work about for EICR's with landlord and people buying/selling.

 

[Luke105]

To be honest its not really the qualifications is about experience. Are you going to start as self employed? I would suggest do the 2391-52 course so you can do EICR's as if you are self employed there is a bit of work about for EICR's with landlord and people buying/selling.

I’m not too bothered about being self employed as it’s a gamble with no repeat customer etc.
I did work for an electrical firm before with only part p and 18th edition. They did the sign offs so I do have experience and knowledge of the job, know how to wire houses etc.
I just want to have the right quals in place.

maybe I should ring a firm and see what I do need for them to take me on.

 

[catdog1121]

I’m not too bothered about being self employed as it’s a gamble with no repeat customer etc.
I did work for an electrical firm before with only part p and 18th edition. They did the sign offs so I do have experience and knowledge of the job, know how to wire houses etc.
I just want to have the right quals in place.

maybe I should ring a firm and see what I do need for them to take me on.

If your not going self employed then why join a cps? Also most employers will look for a gold card, to get that you need the NVQ lvl 3. I retrained and went down the full NVQ route because you never know what they can change in the future and didnt want to have to gain qualifications later on..

 

[Luke105]

If your not going self employed then why join a cps? Also most employers will look for a gold card, to get that you need the NVQ lvl 3. I retrained and went down the full NVQ route because you never know what they can change in the future and didnt want to have to gain qualifications later on..

Now you can see why I’m a bit lost with what I need.
Ideally I would like to work for myself and do domestic work. Really I just need to know what is required to be able to do this legally.

 

[catdog1121]

Now you can see why I’m a bit lost with what I need.
Ideally I would like to work for myself and do domestic work. Really I just need to know what is required to be able to do this legally.

You can probably get away with less qualifications if you are just working for yourself but this was my thinking.

If I have the NVQ 3, 2391 and latest regs then I can get a gold card, I can work for myself, I can work for someone else, If they change the rules and require electricians to have more quals then I am covered. I can see the attraction of not getting the proper qualifications as why bother and it is a lot of work but you will only generally be able to work for yourself..

Contact CPS and ask them, they are pretty friendly (They want your money)..

 

[timhoward]

Really I just need to know what is required to be able to do this legally.

If you have public liability insurance for your own protection, and avoid notifiable work there is nothing legally stopping you doing work.
Would it be fair to say that it's mainly inspection, testing, and certification that you haven't had as much experience of to date?

 

[Luke105]

If you have public liability insurance for your own protection, and avoid notifiable work there is nothing legally stopping you doing work.
Would it be fair to say that it's mainly inspection, testing, and certification that you haven't had as much experience of to date?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m missing experience wise.
I do need the inspection side of things. I’ve done everything wiring wise, installing boards etc. Just never done the tests. I’m confident If someone wanted anything in a domestic wiring wise I could do this. I have been in the building trade for 11 years so have always taken an interest in what other trades are doing on renovations etc and as mentioned I have worked for electrical installations firm before.
I know I’d need the testing and inspection qualification but just wondered what else it was.
Yes I could avoid notifiable work but I do want to have a range of what I’m able to do.

 

[Electrics]

Yes that’s exactly what I’m missing experience wise.
I do need the inspection side of things. I’ve done everything wiring wise, installing boards etc. Just never done the tests. I’m confident If someone wanted anything in a domestic wiring wise I could do this. I have been in the building trade for 11 years so have always taken an interest in what other trades are doing on renovations etc and as mentioned I have worked for electrical installations firm before.
I know I’d need the testing and inspection qualification but just wondered what else it was.
Yes I could avoid notifiable work but I do want to have a range of what I’m able to do.

A 'fully qualified'*** electrician will be expected to have the following:

• Level 3 Installer qualification - City and Guilds 2365 (or equivalent) or EAL Level 3, gotten by yourself or through an apprenticeship.
• 18th Edition
• Inspection and Testing qualification (EAL or C&G 2391)
• NVQ3 (portfolio of work)
• AM2 which comes in various iterations depending on what route you've taken.

The routes to achieve the above vary.

• Do an apprenticeship. This will get you the on site experience, allow you to get a portfolio together easily since you're likely to come across most things at work, and you'll get all the other qualifications from your day release at college, culminating in your AM2, after which you'll be able to get a JIB Gold Card.
• Go to college. This will be to do the Level 2 and 3 Installer qualification. This could be days or evenings and will likely be paid-for if you're an adult learner not on benefits. You don't get the Testing and Inspection, NVQ3, AM2, or the 18th Edition qualifications from this and will have to do them separately. The NVQ poses the biggest problem here since you cannot just pay for it, it has to be a real body of work that you've undertaken and you have to have evidence that you actually did it.
• Pay for a course. These are the short courses. Imo these are the last resort. You've tried to get taken on and can't, and can't do 2 years at college for some reason. You will get the exact same theoretical knowledge as someone who did an apprenticeship, but the practicality of doing the job and the actual application of the theory will be missing which puts you at a huge disadvantage. You will also, if you want a JIB Gold Card, still have to do the NVQ3 and AM2 on top at a cost of around £2k. Getting into work is apparently quite tricky after this unless you're going it alone so the portfolio could be really hard to accomplish.
• Experienced worker route. This is where you know your onions and have been working in electric for 5 or more years but don't have any official qualifications. You can apply to do this route, and after figuring out what you do and don't know they will allow you to take an AM2E test to become certified that way. I believe you still need at minimum the 18th Edition to be able to do this although don't quote me.

***There's really no such thing since electrical professionals are not regulated in the UK - JIB/ECA/NICEIC/NAPIT etc are all just membership schemes with different requirements for joining. Legally all you need to be is 'competent'. Although most people consider what i wrote above to be the gold standard for calling yourself qualified.

 

[Luke105]

A 'fully qualified'*** electrician will be expected to have the following:

• Level 3 Installer qualification - City and Guilds 2365 (or equivalent) or EAL Level 3, gotten by yourself or through an apprenticeship.
• 18th Edition
• Inspection and Testing qualification (EAL or C&G 2391)
• NVQ3 (portfolio of work)
• AM2 which comes in various iterations depending on what route you've taken.

The routes to achieve the above vary.

• Do an apprenticeship. This will get you the on site experience, allow you to get a portfolio together easily since you're likely to come across most things at work, and you'll get all the other qualifications from your day release at college, culminating in your AM2, after which you'll be able to get a JIB Gold Card.
• Go to college. This will be to do the Level 2 and 3 Installer qualification. This could be days or evenings and will likely be paid-for if you're an adult learner not on benefits. You don't get the Testing and Inspection, NVQ3, AM2, or the 18th Edition qualifications from this and will have to do them separately. The NVQ poses the biggest problem here since you cannot just pay for it, it has to be a real body of work that you've undertaken and you have to have evidence that you actually did it.
• Pay for a course. These are the short courses. Imo these are the last resort. You've tried to get taken on and can't, and can't do 2 years at college for some reason. You will get the exact same theoretical knowledge as someone who did an apprenticeship, but the practicality of doing the job and the actual application of the theory will be missing which puts you at a huge disadvantage. You will also, if you want a JIB Gold Card, still have to do the NVQ3 and AM2 on top at a cost of around £2k. Getting into work is apparently quite tricky after this unless you're going it alone so the portfolio could be really hard to accomplish.
• Experienced worker route. This is where you know your onions and have been working in electric for 5 or more years but don't have any official qualifications. You can apply to do this route, and after figuring out what you do and don't know they will allow you to take an AM2E test to become certified that way. I believe youstill need at minimum the 18th Edition to be able to do this although don't quote me.

***There's really no such thing since electrical professionals are not regulated in the UK - JIB/ECA/NICEIC/NAPIT etc are all just membership schemes with different requirements for joining. Legally all you need to be is 'competent'. Although most people consider what i wrote above to be the gold standard for calling yourself qualified.if it’s

 

[Luke105]

It would need to be the quickest:shortest route. I have part p and 18th edition so far.
I’m really not that bothered about golf card. I want to do domestic rewire, run new circuits, extend circuits and sign off etc. Install a shower for Mrs goggins.
There’s no way I could do an apprenticeship with a mortgage, wife and baby.
I keep hearing “domestic installer” and that’s the route I want

 

[Electrics]

It would need to be the quickest:shortest route. I have part p and 18th edition so far.
I’m really not that bothered about golf card. I want to do domestic rewire, run new circuits, extend circuits and sign off etc. Install a shower for Mrs goggins.
There’s no way I could do an apprenticeship with a mortgage, wife and baby.
I keep hearing “domestic installer” and that’s the route I want

Ok i think trying to sign up for a membership scheme like NAPIT or NICEIC is the quickest and cheapest route although i'm not sure they'll accept you without a level 3 qualification - apparently they're changing their rules September 1st.

Best bet is to ring them and ask what they want for joining.

Ps - you can do ANY work you want in a domestic setting with no qualifications as long as you're 'competent' (ie if you think/know you can do it safely.) You just won't be able to sign off notifiable work but you can get building control to do it. I heard someone on a vid the other day say that if you join the council's scheme it's like £80 per visit, so if for example you did a rewire you'd just tack that expense onto the price.

Technically it's not even your responsibility to notify, it's the homeowners, but they might get a shock if they come to sell and are asked for their paperwork only to find out their electrician didn't tell them they needed it.

In your situation i'd say look, i'm not part of a scheme because they're scams, but if you want to sell any time soon you'll have to get it signed off and it will cost X. I can sort it for you.

Just in case you're interested, here are a few links for the experienced worker route (but these are for Gold Cards which you prob don't want) Experienced Worker Assessment | Joint Industry Board (JIB) - https://www.jib.org.uk/experienced-worker-assessment and C&G2346 Experienced Worker Route - https://www.electricaltrainingcourses.co.uk/CG2346-Experienced-Worker-Route/

 

[Deleted account]

It would need to be the quickest:shortest route. I have part p and 18th edition so far.
I’m really not that bothered about golf card. I want to do domestic rewire, run new circuits, extend circuits and sign off etc. Install a shower for Mrs goggins.
There’s no way I could do an apprenticeship with a mortgage, wife and baby.
I keep hearing “domestic installer” and that’s the route I want

Quickest shortest route. No such route. There are no short cuts into this profession.

the best people to ask are niceic, napit, or any of the other cps bodies.

without a level 3 qualification you will not get registered.
you used to be able to get registered with just the level 2 but that has recently changed.
another 2 or 3years at college should do it.

 

[Deleted account]

Sorry @CamoElectric can’t agree with you encouraging people to not notify notifiable works.

we need to keep this profession professional.

@Luke105 please do the right thing and ignore any comment trying to get you to cut corners.
Start as you mean to go on. Do it right.

 

[Electrics]

Sorry @CamoElectric can’t agree with you encouraging people to not notify notifiable works.

we need to keep this profession professional.

@Luke105 please do the right thing and ignore any comment trying to get you to cut corners.
Start as you mean to go on. Do it right.

I didn't encourage anything, i merely stated the facts - it's the homeowners job to notify. In Luke's case, the choice is get a scam membership (which he may not be able to do once the rules change) or notify building control. If the customer doesn't want to pay for building control then it's on them, that was the point. To claim otherwise means that those with experience and competency should pass up on perfectly good work because of bureaucracy. Notifying and certificates are technicalities and whilst i believe they should always be adhered to, their presence doesn't change the outcome of the actual work completed.

Notifying doesn't make the profession any more professional.

When this nonsense came out my mate rewired my old man's house. Time served (5 year apprenticeship, subbing for British Gas) spark with every qualification and piece of equipment going but because he wasn't willing to pay the awarding bodies money he wasn't allowed to sign it off. Yet someone doing a 6 week course could. That's absolutely mental and nothing at all to do with standards and everything to do with milking the industry as a big cash cow.

In that case it fell to my old man to notify the council, which he did.

Please let's stop equating red tape with professionalism or quality of work.

I was just giving Luke his options as to what he could do if he or his customer so choose. If he can't/won't join a scam body then his options are add the building control money onto every single job or explain to the customer that it's red tape that doesn't affect the outcome of the work but will need to be applied for by them if they won't pay for the spark to do it.