Routing of meter tails

[Pete999]

You cant rely on t&e to perform like that.

And as long as the cables are correctly installed then screws aren't a problem. You might as well say what if he uses 6 inch nails.

The World is full of "what ifs"

 

[leep82]

You cant rely on t&e to perform like that.

And as long as the cables are correctly installed then screws aren't a problem. You might as well say what if he uses 6 inch nails.

I get that, but i wouldnt also rely on the current set up to perform like that either, although more chance with a T&E. Can i ask why a SWA seems to be a preferred method?

 

[Pete999]

I get that, but i wouldnt also rely on the current set up to perform like that either, although more chance with a T&E. Can i ask why a SWA seems to be a preferred method?

Earthed Amour maybe?

 

[leep82]

Earthed Amour maybe?

Without wanting to sound stupid what is tht earthed armour offering ?

 

[Pete999]

Without wanting to sound stupid what is tht earthed armour offering ?

RCD not needed

 

[leep82]

RCD not needed

Because?

 

[PEG]

Without wanting to sound stupid what is tht earthed armour offering ?

A much,much better chance,of conductors being "hit",in the correct order

 

[PEG]

Without wanting to sound stupid what is tht earthed armour offering ?

A much,much better chance,of conductors being "hit",in the correct order

 

[PEG]

Animal wagging? I've checked the regs and I can't find this.

...Someone pulled a face at using the common parlance,so i substituted "animal wagging stick",for "tails" i ran a test on my 9 year old...and he got it!

 

[leep82]

RCD not needed

Because?

A much,much better chance,of conductors being "hit",in the correct order

i absolutely agree. So would a T&E not offer a better chance than the installed ‘ tails ‘. Just trying to justify why T&E might have been better than the tails.

 

[DPG]

Not sure why you keep wanting to justify that opinion. It has no relevance as far as regs are concerned.

 

[leep82]

I just feel it would have been a better installation method than using 25mm2 tails. Earlier in the thread it was asked what would be gained from using T&E over the tails, so im just trying to provide some reason for it. Whilst there may not be any relevance to it s far as the regs are concerned, can we not apply the same reasoning.

 

[Midwest]

I came across a fault a while back. The previous owner had installed some dado rail on the landing. He secured the rail using some harden nails, one clipped one of the strappers for the two way landing light, in a piece of tw&e. Didn't touch cable cpc. He did a perfect job, touching the copper of the conductor, but not severing it, so light & dado rail worked perfectly. Until that is the next owner had the bathroom refurb'd, and the plumber and all, were getting shocks off the bathroom wall, when touching the plumbing.

So could of been tw&e or sheathed/insulated, result would of been the same

 

[leep82]

Yeah im not saying its by any means fool proof, i just feel theres more chance of striking more than just the one conductor when using a T&E

 

[Octopus]

RCD not needed

And if installed correctly, the anything penetrating the sea is almost certainly going to take out the fuse ....

 

[Ian1981]

And if installed correctly, the anything penetrating the sea is almost certainly going to take out the fuse ....

The sea??

 

[Octopus]

The sea??

poxy predictive text

SWA

 

[Pete999]

Because?

If the cable is less than 5mm below surface it has an earthed sheath as in conduit MICC ETC

poxy predictive text

SWA

I knew that Honest

 

[leep82]

I agree with everything thats being said, but im obviously alone in thinking the T&E method has its benefits over the sheathed/insulated tails.

 

[Pete999]

I agree with everything thats being said, but im obviously alone in thinking the T&E method has its benefits over the sheathed/insulated tails.

So what do you think that tells you Leep82

 

[leep82]

So what do you think that tells you Leep82

It doesnt tell me im wrong as its all opinion. No install method mentioned is a deviation from the Regs and nobody has said i shouldnt use T&E because of ........ My prefence would be SWA>T&E>insulated/sheathed tails, but it all depends on the installation.

 

[Midwest]

It doesnt tell me im wrong as its all opinion. No install method mentioned is a deviation from the Regs and nobody has said i shouldnt use T&E because of ........ My prefence would be SWA>T&E>insulated/sheathed tails, but it all depends on the installation.

You not alone, I've seen quite a few such distribution circuits done with tw&e. If done correctly, there's nowt wrong with it. Prefer to allow using swa myself.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You can use T&E if you want.
The CPC will have to be a minimum CSA of 10mm2 if PME conditions apply.
Where the cable passes through joists or battens above a ceiling or below a floor, it will have to be a minimum of 50mm from the surface of the ceiling or floor, or provided with mechanical protection.
If it’s concealed in walls it will have to be at a minimum depth of 50mm or in a prescribed route and provided with 30mA RCD protection.

 

[stevels4]

I wonder who is going to break the seals on the cut out and meter and remove the fuse in order to install the load tails and KMF unless there is already a double pole isolator fitted.
It is coming up to Christmas so perhaps the "Seal Fairy"
I guess the tails from the cut out to meter are also 25mm and fully tightened?

 

[Octopus]

Whats a seal?

 

[Pete999]

Whats a seal?

 

[davesparks]

Yeah im not saying its by any means fool proof, i just feel theres more chance of striking more than just the one conductor when using a T&E

Actually with the theee separate single core cables properly bound in a triangular formation you’d be more likely to hit more than one core with a screw as they overlap better in all planes.

But ‘more likely to hit’ is irrelevant and offers no protection.

 

[davesparks]

Without wanting to sound stupid what is tht earthed armour offering ?

That earthed armour is offering protection from electric shock for anyone damaging the cable with a metal object.
The point of having earthed armour on a cable is to connect any metal object which penetrates the cable to earth before it makes contact with any live conductor, this in turn ensures operation of the protective device.

 

[Percyprod]

You must have some means of protection at meter position, dno fuse is NOT acceptable, it is to protect the dno's system, not the installation.

 

[leep82]

That earthed armour is offering protection from electric shock for anyone damaging the cable with a metal object.
The point of having earthed armour on a cable is to connect any metal object which penetrates the cable to earth before it makes contact with any live conductor, this in turn ensures operation of the protective device.

Yes i agree, so by that token does a metal object have more chance of striking the CPC in a T&E than it does if using insulated/sheathed tails? Im not trying to argue against SWA, its the best method discussed on this thread. I was just asked what benefits a T&E would have over tails and for me this is it. Granted its by no means a certainty and as none of the install methods are not to current regulations it doesnt actually matter, but my personal opinion is the T&E method has advantages over 25mm tails

 

[Toneyz]

Apart from the use of SWA I think we are getting into the argument of good practice.This supply in "meter tails" should not be protected by the DNO protective device.

 

[leep82]

Apart from the use of SWA I think we are getting into the argument of good practice.This supply in "meter tails" should not be protected by the DNO protective device.

It wont be

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

Would it not be better to extend the supply via SWA from a DP Switch Fuse?

Would be my best case scenario too, if budget & circumstances allow.
If the 25mm/16mm tail kit is in place (and there will be suitable DP switched fuse after the meter) I don't see a problem.

 

[leep82]

Would be my best case scenario too, if budget & circumstances allow.
If the 25mm/16mm tail kit is in place (and there will be suitable DP switched fuse after the meter) I don't see a problem.

Yea guys this is the best scenario however the 25mm tails are already in and ceilings boarded and skimmed. The debate has gone slightly off topic and benefits of other methods are being discussed

 

[davesparks]

Yes i agree, so by that token does a metal object have more chance of striking the CPC in a T&E than it does if using insulated/sheathed tails? s

You’ve missed the point, it is not about striking the cpc, it is about making contact with earthed metal first.
Yes there might be slightly more chance of hitting the cpc, but that’s no good if the metal object has gone through the live first and injured or killed the person holding it.

‘More chance’ doesn’t offer any protection at all.

 

[leep82]

You’ve missed the point, it is not about striking the cpc, it is about making contact with earthed metal first.
Yes there might be slightly more chance of hitting the cpc, but that’s no good if the metal object has gone through the live first and injured or killed the person holding it.

‘More chance’ doesn’t offer any protection at all.

I dont think ive missed the point to be honest i fully get that. But neither the T&E method or insulated/sheathed tails offer any earthed metal work.

 

[DPG]

Exactly, and that is the whole point. Neither offer any more protection.

 

[DaveHsussex]

Problem: Reliant on Overcurrent for protection against damage to tails, damage could present an electric shock risk inside the house if there is damp etc. In fact, a high ohms fault to the tails might not trip the cutout...ever, but it will make a wall or floor live if it's damp and kill someone.

Tails are not recommended to be more than 3m. Once you put an isolator inline, you're solving that.

I'd put a 100ma time delayed isolator/rcbo just after the cutout, you probably won't get perfect discrimination when rcd testing though, although some meters play nice.

And if you had a choice, it should of been XPLE25mm to cover all bases and future proofing to 100a fuse upgrade when they want a car charger putting in the garage for their diet tesla in 5x years.