Smart meters cause soaring bills True or False

[Vortigern]

Do smart meters cause soaring bills due to inrush currents recorded digitally? Low power factor equipment may cause this???? What is the hive mind conclusion?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Do smart meters cause soaring bills due to inrush currents recorded digitally? Low power factor equipment may cause this???? What is the hive mind conclusion?

Not had any problems since the pass.

 

[freddo]

Do smart meters cause soaring bills due to inrush currents recorded digitally? Low power factor equipment may cause this???? What is the hive mind conclusion?

Higher smart meter bills are almost certainly due to the variable tariff the energy suppliers provide as the standard recommended option. That's why they try to get you to agree to 1/2 hour meter readings. The half hour readings option was helpfully bordered in green in all the annoying letters I get from my supplier. Fark you SSE.

I can guarantee that everyone who has a smart meter in their home didn't read the terms and conditions before agreeing to have one installed. If they did they wouldn't have agreed to it. I spent a lot of time reading the ones from my supplier (it was time consuming as information was spread across a number of links and I had to keep switching back and forth between web pages to find all the information). It was clear they were trying to make the information as difficult to find as possible.

 

[brianmoooore]

Sounds like yet another false rumour on social media.

 

[Spoon]

That's why they try to get you to agree to 1/2 hour meter readings.

Please excuse my ignorance but what difference would it make as to if its a half hour reading or 1 a day reading? At the end of the day you have still used the same amount of electricity. Or have I miss-read something?

 

[littlespark]

What is the hive mind conclusion?

"Resistance is futile!"

 

[brianmoooore]

The bill produced from a smart meter will be exactly the same as the bill produced from any other type of meter, if on the same tariff.
In time, I expect there will be multiple tariffs over the day with smart meters, depending on demand, talking to smart equipment that draws current to take advantage of the cheaper rates. A bit like storage heaters on E7, but much more sophisticated.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

We moved 2 weeks back and currently do not have a smart meter, we stayed with Octopus as I refer so many of my EV charger customers, at £50 a go it is quite lucrative, I referred a commercial customer who has 3 meters/mpans for her BandB/Farm so got £300 as business signups net £100.
We havent actually 'paid' for gas and electric for several months...
So cant really say if I noticed a difference. Our direct debit is a nominal £10 a month.
If anybody does wish to join octopus and we both get £50just ask for the referral code.!!
The main issue is tariffs, our smart meters go in on 9th December, at our last place we would charge car overnight between 12:30-4:30 at 5Pence per kwh.
We also scheduled washing machine, dishwasher etc for overnight, tumble dryer in separate garage aswell. - has multi sensor alarm above!
All my tool battery chargers are on timer plugs to start at 12:30. literally everything we can do overnight we do.
too many tariffs with the 30min meter reads allows them to easily get people to sign up for flexi tariffs that are market reactive so that in the end the customer gets stung.

 

[freddo]

Please excuse my ignorance but what difference would it make as to if its a half hour reading or 1 a day reading? At the end of the day you have still used the same amount of electricity. Or have I miss-read something?

Yes the half hour readings allow the supplier to work out when you use most electricity, morning shower, evening cooking etc. the variable tariff allows them to set the high usage times to a peak rate and the low use times such as at night or when you are at work to a low rate.

 

[James]

I keep getting reminders that my smart meter is ready to be installed at my convenience, Their is no advantage that I can see for the householder so i use the reminders to light my log burner.

 

[Spoon]

Yes the half hour readings allow the supplier to work out when you use most electricity, morning shower, evening cooking etc. the variable tariff allows them to set the high usage times to a peak rate and the low use times such as at night or when you are at work to a low rate.

Ok, from a variable tariff point of view I understand that, but they already know when the usage of electricity goes up for households and they wouldn't be able to do individual tariffs per household as that would be discrimination.

 

[freddo]

they wouldn't be able to do individual tariffs per household as that would be discrimination.

But by agreeing to have a smart meter you accept the smart meter terms and conditions which clearly stats this type of per household adjustable tariff. One of the reasons I don't have a smart meter!

 

[7029 dave]

The only advantage to the user is controlling the amount of energy used with the aid of the IHD, when folk see it plunging into the red they think wow lets knock the usage down, also it does away with estimated billing.
The advantage to the energy supplier no need for meter readers.

 

[brianmoooore]

The only advantage to the user is controlling the amount of energy used with the aid of the IHD, when folk see it plunging into the red they think wow lets knock the usage down, also it does away with estimated billing.
The advantage to the energy supplier no need for meter readers.

At the moment, yes, but ultimately it will become a much more sophisticated version of Economy 7, with multiple tariffs, and hopefully smart appliances will detect these tariffs, and things that can, will use power when it is cheapest.
Advantage to the supplier is that it will smooth out peaks and troughs in demand, or more likely, match the demand to when there is available renewable energy.

 

[Aaron b]

Annoyingly these meters have a contactor in them that if it wasn't behind a password we could turn off the supply, I assume the energy companies could just deactivate it remotely also. E-on and so energy managed to cock my readings up even though I had a smart meter.

 

[Vortigern]

£10 a month.

wHATTTTT! How? I pay 130 pm and 250 when with British gas. I want some of what you are doing. Oh btw I am with octopus. Feel a bit guilty as I have been known to eat a little here and there.

 

[Vortigern]

Anyway what about the wifi radiation from it? Yes I buy a lot of baco foil.

 

[Spoon]

But by agreeing to have a smart meter you accept the smart meter terms and conditions which clearly stats this type of per household adjustable tariff. One of the reasons I don't have a smart meter!

Not wanting a smart meter I have never looked into the T&C and I didn't know about the adjustable tariff.

 

[freddo]

Not wanting a smart meter I have never looked into the T&C and I didn't know about the adjustable tariff.

I didn't really know much about the things. I was quite shocked by some of the conditions listed. I forget what the other concerning things were, it was several months ago I read them.

If I did ever end up with a smart meter I'd want to see what would happen on the IHD when really heavy current is drawn. I've drawn over 130A for short durations during 'educational experiments' here.

 

[telectrix]

costs money to fit a smart meter. suppliers ain't gonna dip into their own funds so who pays the cost?

obviously joe mug the customer, me and you. one way or another they'll get it off us.

 

[littlespark]

Is there not a statement in the contract that says what tariff you would be on? So them hiking it up at peak times shouldn’t put you over a set amount.

 

[UNG]

At the moment, yes, but ultimately it will become a much more sophisticated version of Economy 7, with multiple tariffs, and hopefully smart appliances will detect these tariffs, and things that can, will use power when it is cheapest.
Advantage to the supplier is that it will smooth out peaks and troughs in demand, or more likely, match the demand to when there is available renewable energy.

I like your optimism
The days of cheap or cheaper periods of electricity are numbered as we move to a mostly or completely electric society, I don't see where these peaks and especially the troughs are going to occur. Smart appliances are all very good but what if the supplier only allows the washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher etc to operate on 2, 3 or 4 days a week to balance the load. What if we get to the point of charging the EV or washing the clothes which wins


Forget the supplier T&C's read the SMETS specification documents, SMETS 2 is the current version but SMETS 3 is on the way. These smart meters basically are giving someone else control of your electricity use may be not now, but it will be a slow creeping takeover of control in the next few years / decade. IMO smart meters are going to be the new form of rationing.
It would appear that the thoughts of Eric Arthur Blair are not that far away from becoming true

 

[Marvo]

In theory the type of meter should have little of no effect on the monthly bill assuming they're equally accurate. A smart meter would however make it possible for them to bill customers in KVA/h rather than KW/h as they traditionally have done for domestic consumers and that could make a considerable increase in the monthly amount payable. All of a sudden those cheap LED lamps and power supplies with an apalling power factor are going to be expensive to run.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

wHATTTTT! How? I pay 130 pm and 250 when with British gas. I want some of what you are doing. Oh btw I am with octopus. Feel a bit guilty as I have been known to eat a little here and there.

They key @Vortigern is refer all your friends and family. You get £50 they get £50.
I refer at least 1 or 2 sometimes more a month. When doing EICRs i stuck stickers and qr codes on the board saying free £50 if you switch to Octopus!! Students often do scan and sign up! Reminds me i need to get.more printed!
Those £50s soon make the account look good. As mentioned in earlier post i got a bandb owner to switch all her supplies. A nice few hundred for that one!
We dont have our ev at.present (software issue) so not using much in way of electric overnight.
If everybody on the forum referred one person like dominoes it would make us all a bit of wonga

 

[Simon47]

Yes, the referral bonus from Octopus is quite nice ?
In principle, having a smart meter should not change what you pay/get charged for on any given tariff. But ...
There have been issues with some types of meter - it's not whether it's smart or not, it's specifically being electronic and the type of measuring circuit.
It was found in the Netherlands a few years ago that some meters were over-reading by a factor of up to 6 when presented with non-linear loads and/or noise. It was not that they were smart, it was that they used a Rogowski coil to measure the load and the electronics had been poorly designed. IIRC it came to light when a solar PV farm found their metered output very different to that reported by the inverters - or perhaps that was a similar but different incident.

 

[Mike Johnson]

This sort of soaring price's did the round in France when they first started to be installed, in most case's it turned out to be under reading from the existing old meter, my meter is in a locked box in the road about 20m from the house, so I don't know if I even have one, do I care, no I have just signed the pre-contract of sale. ?

 

[telectrix]

contacted octopus this morning. they quoted a ridiculous tariff. leccy - 28p/kWH.

 

[brianmoooore]

That's about the going rate after the gas price increases. I've just been quoted 26.73p.

 

[MJPD29]

They didn't even quote me. Just told me in the current climate I'm better staying with my current provider.

 

[Vortigern]

Recently I was asked on a commerical site to answer some questions as they are changing to smart H/H meter three phase. I was asked among other things what the demand was for the whole site! Thats sixty offices and 3Ph 200a. After much humming and what have you we worked out the Kva and told them. The point is that you had to accurately do this or suffer a penalty costwise if you exceeded the required Kva, so no pressure then. The penalties are quite high as well if you exceeded it. This was per month. So there can be other costs associated with going smart on commercial. Something to watch out for. By the way we got it right!

 

[telectrix]

21.8p for 1kWH leccy. we'repaying for all them bloody windmills. green energy..... shove it. build a couple of nuke power stations.

 

[Simon47]

The point is that you had to accurately do this or suffer a penalty costwise if you exceeded the required Kva, so no pressure then.

But that's nothing new and again isn't specific to smart meters.

 

[brianmoooore]

21.8p for 1kWH leccy. we'repaying for all them bloody windmills. green energy..... shove it. build a couple of nuke power stations.

I expect that Telectrix, like me, can remember the opening of Calder Hall, and the announcement that electricity production would 'soon be too cheap to meter'. Wonder what happened to that one!
The 'strike' price for Hinkley C, at 9.25p/kWhr (subject to increase with inflation), which seemed outrageously high when announced, now seems more attractive by the day.

 

[Vortigern]

I recall as a kid the headlines showing a piece of coal and saying the equivalent nuclear engergy from that size could power a city and that electricity would be free! Must have been around 1964, so much for that then!

 

[freddo]

LOL my supplier has just emailed me: 'We're increasing your Direct Debit, to help cover future price increases.' Imagine if I charged customers for electrical work I might (or might not) carry out at some point in the future!

 

[Simon47]

I expect that Telectrix, like me, can remember the opening of Calder Hall, and the announcement that electricity production would 'soon be too cheap to meter'. Wonder what happened to that one!

We know what happened to that, it got nobbled by the "we want zero risk" brigade pushing costs up by taking the R out of ALARP on safety.

The 'strike' price for Hinkley C, at 9.25p/kWhr (subject to increase with inflation), which seemed outrageously high when announced, now seems more attractive by the day.

Indeed it does. Of course, that doesn't stop the renewables lobby criticising it for being an outrageous "subsidy" as the windmill operators sit back and harvest the "but it's definitely not a subsidy" ROCs while quietly ignoring the externalised costs of dealing with their intermittency as they talk about how cheap wind power is (if you ignore the subsidies a.k.a. ROCs and externalised costs).

LOL my supplier has just emailed me: 'We're increasing your Direct Debit, to help cover future price increases.' Imagine if I charged customers for electrical work I might (or might not) carry out at some point in the future!

The difference being that (unless you switch suppliers, in which case any credit balance will get transferred or refunded), you have contracted to take energy on an ongoing basis. It seems sensible for the energy suppliers to manage customers' DDs so as to avoid racking up large debts that they then might struggle to clear. I know we're in credit with our supplier at the moment because we use less gas and lecky during the summer - but by next spring we'll probably be in debit. If we, or rather our supplier, gets it right then we'll keep to a fairly stable DD without building up massive credits or debits with them.
An equivalent might be that you contract with a commercial customer to do ongoing works - e.g. a rolling plan for inspection and testing such that everything gets done every so many years - and you charge a fixed monthly amount. If you know your costs are going to go up massively, you would be looking to adjust your monthly charge to suit. Also, you probably won't do the same amount of work every month as you fit it in with other work - so some months you'll be doing work you're not charging for, and other months you'll be charging for work you're not doing (in that month).