solar panels....Sold a lemon?

[Jim Gough]

I thought that I would try and do something to reduce my carbon footprint and get solar panels and a storage battery installed in my house. (5kw of panels, 10kwh storage) but now find that no electrical supply company wants to touch me with a barge pole. I was with green energy but they went bust and taken over by shell who unsurprisingly wont even entertain a storage system unless you buy their batteries. I feel now like I should have just piled £11k of money in my back garden and burned it. I thought the country was supposed to going green, but so far its been the total opposite. Does anybody know if there are any grants to help with the costs, or if there are any suppliers who will entertain me? Octopus who claim to be green wanted to charge me 37p a unit for electricity, yet would only give me 5.5p a unit which is called profiteering.

 

[Deleted account]

Your post surprises me. I didn’t think it mattered if you had solar or not when choosing a supplier.

as for the feed in tariff. That’s just the way it is now. If I got solar panels I would not even bother with it and I’d ensure I use every last inch of the power harvested. Then id be saving the full tarif I would have been charged.
is this a domestic or comercial setting? as 5 kw is alot for domestic.

 

[snowhead]

The problem as I see it with your system from a Supplier's point of view is you won't be Exporting or Importing much as you will be using most of what you generate.
So they don't get to sell you much energy, hence the higher price and you won't be exporting much so they don't get to make much profit on that.

I would imagine the uncertainty of the energy prices has something to do with it and as a new customer you'll be charged the current rate.
That's the same rate we'll all be paying when our deals run out, mine's up in March with Shell.

At the moment I pay 16p day and 11p night with Shell,
I've been offered 20p day and 20p night or 25p day 10.5 night from 1st March 2022 with Shell.

And they're still insisting all my power will go off in March when the BBC time signal is turned off for the Radio Teleswitch, unless I change to "Smart" metering.
They still haven't worked out I don't have a Teleswitch, I've got a meter with time controls built in.

 

[Zerax]

At the end of the day... it's complicated.

From my analysis, a productised battery solution (like Powerwall say) makes no sense as it's way too expensive. If I make up a solution myself from batteries/BMS etc. etc... it'll have a payback of about 10 years, which is right at the end of life for many of the parts.

Solar PV makes sense, now that the cost of grid power has gone up so much, but you're still looking at 20+ timeline.

All of this assumes no FIT of course, which was the only thing that made PV panels economic this far north.

 

[Jim Gough]

The thing is with the batteries I have, they are supposed to do more than 6000 cycles, which equates to 16 years approx which should see the panels getting to the end of their lives too, and my plan was to go on to octopus go tariff and charge the batteries at night at 7.5p a unit and export anything generated in the day at whatever octopussy would pay me for it. That way I would never pay more than 7.5p a unit. However the guy on the phone said that the go tariff wasn't available if you have solar panels or don't have an electric car.

 

[Jim Gough]

Your post surprises me. I didn’t think it mattered if you had solar or not when choosing a supplier.

as for the feed in tariff. That’s just the way it is now. If I got solar panels I would not even bother with it and I’d ensure I use every last inch of the power harvested. Then id be saving the full tarif I would have been charged.
is this a domestic or comercial setting? as 5 kw is alot for domestic.

It's domestic. I got a big roof LOL!

 

[Zerax]

The thing is with the batteries I have, they are supposed to do more than 6000 cycles, which equates to 16 years approx which should see the panels getting to the end of their lives too, and my plan was to go on to octopus go tariff and charge the batteries at night at 7.5p a unit and export anything generated in the day at whatever octopussy would pay me for it. That way I would never pay more than 7.5p a unit. However the guy on the phone said that the go tariff wasn't available if you have solar panels or don't have an electric car.

There's no selling back with the Go tariff... they do different one for selling back, I think it's called 'Outgoing Octopus'. It's like the 'Agile' pricing in that it changes every ½ hr. But with a large battery and some suitable software/hardware it should be possible to buy when it's cheap and sell when its expensive.

I did hear that Octopus are going to start checking that people do actually have an EV before they let you onto the Go tariff... but no idea if that's true or not.

 

[Zerax]

The thing is with the batteries I have, they are supposed to do more than 6000 cycles, which equates to 16 years approx which should see the panels getting to the end of their lives too, and my plan was to go on to octopus go tariff and charge the batteries at night at 7.5p a unit and export anything generated in the day at whatever octopussy would pay me for it. That way I would never pay more than 7.5p a unit. However the guy on the phone said that the go tariff wasn't available if you have solar panels or don't have an electric car.

Yeah... but over 16 years.. there will be degradation, so you won't get 100% usage out of them. Battery life is a bit of a moot topic still as there's not alot of history to base things on... but age is defo as important a factor as cycles... 16 years is a long time ! You may only have 50-60% left or need to have individual cells swapped out.

 

[buzzlightyear]

and export anything generated in the day at whatever octopussy would pay me for it.

i did not know that you export electricity , and did not know how you put in to the grid ,so how come to apposing currents work power in ,any way who said they reinventing the wheel .

 

[mattwh]

I thought that I would try and do something to reduce my carbon footprint and get solar panels and a storage battery installed in my house. (5kw of panels, 10kwh storage) but now find that no electrical supply company wants to touch me with a barge pole. I was with green energy but they went bust and taken over by shell who unsurprisingly wont even entertain a storage system unless you buy their batteries. I feel now like I should have just piled £11k of money in my back garden and burned it. I thought the country was supposed to going green, but so far its been the total opposite. Does anybody know if there are any grants to help with the costs, or if there are any suppliers who will entertain me? Octopus who claim to be green wanted to charge me 37p a unit for electricity, yet would only give me 5.5p a unit which is called profiteering.

The supply industry is not really geared to take microgenerators, its cumbersome & not profitable but we all share your disappointment. On the plus side your installation is capable of saving you the 37p unit by producing & storing & contributing to what you need/use. This in itself can be your best asset. If your production exceeds your existing electric load needs then try to switch away from gas appliances to electric and consider investing in technology like iBoost which will heat your hot water as well (prior to charging your batteries) or other technologies & applications like electrical underfloor heating. Certainly, unless you have particular frugal usage I fail to see how a 5kw system could meet your existing demand but nonetheless savings are there to be made. Good luck

 

[Jim Gough]

Just a slightly amusing update on this...I asked Shell energy if I get paid anything at all for electricity I feed into the grid, and the rather clueless woman I spoke to claimed that they charge me!!!!!! I'm pretty sure shes got that wrong, but what is worrying is the fact that nobody I talk to at shell can actually find a definitive answer.

 

[Deleted account]

I think the clueless woman may not be so clueless. They are there to charge you for the energy you use. They also charge you a daily charge. The amount that’s put back into the grid is such a tiny payment it may be less than the daily charge. The daily charge may be more that you could get back.
your not going to get any decent deals on feed in tariff now.

you will only get savings by using or storing what you harvest.

 

[Jim Gough]

I think the clueless woman may not be so clueless. They are there to charge you for the energy you use. They also charge you a daily charge. The amount that’s put back into the grid is such a tiny payment it may be less than the daily charge. The daily charge may be more that you could get back.
your not going to get any decent deals on feed in tariff now.

you will only get savings by using or storing what you harvest.

I'm not trying to get a decent tariff right now, I'm just trying to find out if the electricity that my solar panels feed into the grid, like they did on Thursday last week because the batteries were fully charged, earns me any money at all. Put simply, do I get paid for the electricity I feed into the grid or not?

 

[Deleted account]

I think the consensus is you either don’t get any or so little that it’s pretty pointless. I don’t think energy companies want to pay out any more considering the problems they are now facing.

the feed in tariff was only viable when the government contributed. Now they don’t.

I personally don’t believe in the feed in tariff. Never did. If we needed the feed in tariff to make it viable then it’s not viable. We should be using all the electric we generate.

 

[Zerax]

I think the consensus is you either don’t get any or so little that it’s pretty pointless. I don’t think energy companies want to pay out any more considering the problems they are now facing.

the feed in tariff was only viable when the government contributed. Now they don’t.

I personally don’t believe in the feed in tariff. Never did. If we needed the feed in tariff to make it viable then it’s not viable. We should be using all the electric we generate.

I think having a way to export surplus energy back to the grid is a good thing... and when we do, we should be getting a sensible price for it. The alternative is either we just lose it... which is nuts... or we store it in a battery of some sort for use later on... which costs money for batteries etc. and also consumes the earths resources (lithium, plastics etc.)

We should be encouraging everyone to put solar PV on a suitable roof... then we'd all save money.

I think it was Hawaii (yeah yeah yeah... I know they get alot more sun that we do) which said years ago that any new build or major works had to incorporate PV panels... with any surplus power being exported back to the grid. Then, on sunny days, the grid was overloaded with power !! So then then said that all new builds/major works must have PV and battery... isn't that a good thing ?? I think they were getting like 1:1 on import/export tariffs.

One of the things that messes up the UK market... is all these government interventions like price caps, crazy FITs, green levies etc. etc.

 

[Jim Gough]

What worries me is the fact the Shell don't seem to have the slightest idea about exported electricity. As it is I think I've managed to damage my inverter because the settings were that exporting wasn't allowed and ever since thusday when the batteries became fully charged the solar panels have not been generating hardly any power. The volts are there, but the power is fluctuating at very low levels. Looking at a graph of generation the output looks like a sawtooth. I'm really regretting having all this installed.

 

[Deleted account]

One member of staff isn’t shell.
is there a setting to stop exporting electric? If so, youd think the system would cope with that if that option is there.

also why would you stop the exporting electric. If your not using it why waste it?

 

[PEG]

Hi,i am almost certain that 11k spent on insulation,heat recovery/ventilation and more efficient appliances,would have yielded more joy

I am not sure what batteries/system you have,but what is the maximum load and duration of that load,which a fully charged battery can sustain? It was this question which steered me pal away from an 18 grand idea.....

I come across a lot of these installs,where it seems none of the installers,sellers,reps or homeowners,has a credible.understandable or matching description of its use or function.

 

[BeeJayEff]

Bit of a thread resurrection here .. that last comment about installers, sellers, reps failing to understand certainly rings true in my case. I'm in a similar position to the original poster. I have 13kWp of panels (10kWp after PVGIS calculations) with two Solis inverters and hadn't realised I would be limited to 3.68kW export (single phase). Installer took ages to get DNO approval via the G99 process.
Seems to me that installers talk about kWh, so they look at my typical usage - including my new electric car - and average that usage over the month/year/whatever, whereas of arguably more relevance is kW, Last week my panels were generating up to 8kW. As it happens, I was able to put 7kW of that into my car - but if I had been out in the car, what would have happened to that excess power ?
By the way, FiTs are no longer available. Now it's SEG (Smart Energy Generation) tariffs which all large suppliers are obliged to offer - not that their staff know about them (yes, looking at you, British Gas) ! I don't want to go to a cheap rate tariff such as Octopus Go, but will probably go for Octopus Agile for export and their standard tariff for import.
I don't (yet) have a battery - they seemed very expensive, but I shall reconsider as we go through the next year and see how much we export/import.

 

[Jim Gough]

Bit of a thread resurrection here .. that last comment about installers, sellers, reps failing to understand certainly rings true in my case. I'm in a similar position to the original poster. I have 13kWp of panels (10kWp after PVGIS calculations) with two Solis inverters and hadn't realised I would be limited to 3.68kW export (single phase). Installer took ages to get DNO approval via the G99 process.
Seems to me that installers talk about kWh, so they look at my typical usage - including my new electric car - and average that usage over the month/year/whatever, whereas of arguably more relevance is kW, Last week my panels were generating up to 8kW. As it happens, I was able to put 7kW of that into my car - but if I had been out in the car, what would have happened to that excess power ?
By the way, FiTs are no longer available. Now it's SEG (Smart Energy Generation) tariffs which all large suppliers are obliged to offer - not that their staff know about them (yes, looking at you, British Gas) ! I don't want to go to a cheap rate tariff such as Octopus Go, but will probably go for Octopus Agile for export and their standard tariff for import.
I don't (yet) have a battery - they seemed very expensive, but I shall reconsider as we go through the next year and see how much we export/import.

I've just bought another 9.6kw of batteries for mine as even in February on sunny days I was generating more than my batteries can store. I'm very interested about these SEG tarrifs as sofar the buggers have been getting my excess electricity for nowt. I've given up with shell energy they are without doubt the worst company I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.