Solar pv - slates being drilled through to install

[eldaniel]

Hi, Recently I had solar panels fitted and realised how they have done it and I hope someone will be able to give me advice how bad and dangrous workmanship that is.
1. They trilled through the slate roof so hooks rest on the slates and then going into rafters. Basically slate became load bearing. I have noticed couple of broken slates when they damaged it whilst drilling and they used some sort of silicone to glue it together! I can only see 2 slates badly drilled through but I only have a view of the hooks which are closest to the gutter. God knows how many more are like that up the roof. 1 of those hooks has a loose screw, which you can see is not even screwed all the way in. Head is 2mm above the slate.
2. In the loft I realised that they perforated the felt by drilling through and not hitting the rafters, then drilling again and on occassions not hitting the rafters again! All in all I have noticed at least 10 holes where they missed the rafters and you can see silicone in those holes again.
3. They splintered 2 rafters slightly on the edges byt drilling exactly where the side of the rafter is instead of directly in the centre.
4. Also where there is one of the badly installed hook I noticed that both screws for the same hook did go in the side of the rafter hence they must be barely holding anything and I suspect with the strong wind this will be the first hook that will come of.
Considering above is it reasonable that I expect the panels to be removed, roof repaired including felt replaced and panels put back on please?
I am most curious what you think of drilling through slate? Is it absolutly not acceptable or is it considered as acceptable but bad practice. Surely silicone may wear of very soon and I will have roof leaking all over the place. That is on assumptions that wind won't blew the panels of prior to that.

I would appreciate your advice please as I need to arm myself in knowledge before complaining to the company as at this stage it is only my uneducated opinion that this does not look correctly installed.

 

[snowhead]

Drilling the slate or tile and fixing through it is not acceptable as they are not load bearing.
Should have removed the slate / tile, fixed the brackets to the rafters the cut the slate / tile to fit around the bracket.
The bracket manufacturer would not approve of the fixings done and any warranty with them would be void, nor would MCS approve.
The felt should not have been punctured, cables should have been pushed up through the next upper overlap of felt / membrane.

If done correctly and to industry standards then Silicon would not be required.
Any puncture in the felt should be repaired with a full width of tucked under the overlap above and over the overlap below, so if any water gets throught the hole it will run out onto the felt below.

Given the state of it I doubt they have used the required number and size of screws to fix the brackets.
And it's an absolute guarantee you'll have leaks in your roof.

 

[eldaniel]

Drilling the slate or tile and fixing through it is not acceptable as they are not load bearing.
Should have removed the slate / tile, fixed the brackets to the rafters the cut the slate / tile to fit around the bracket.
The bracket manufacturer would not approve of the fixings done and any warranty with them would be void, nor would MCS approve.
The felt should not have been punctured, cables should have been pushed up through the next upper overlap of felt / membrane.

If done correctly and to industry standards then Silicon would not be required.
Any puncture in the felt should be repaired with a full width of tucked under the overlap above and over the overlap below, so if any water gets throught the hole it will run out onto the felt below.

Given the state of it I doubt they have used the required number and size of screws to fix the brackets.
And it's an absolute guarantee you'll have leaks in your roof.

I really appreciate your comment. I needed something like that to give me some reassurance that it is really bad workmanship in fact. I will contact them tomorrow by email and await their reply. Let's see if they try to wriggle out of responsibility somehow. They have used the subcontractor for install, so I guess they would have to claim it from their insurance.

 

[pirate]

Sorry to read this...why, oh why do we see such poor workmanship everywhere?
The answer, I feel, is because there are many good people doing good work, electricians, plumbers etc...the kind of people who come on here, give excellent advice and share their wisdom and experience...for every one of those there are 100 cowboys, chancers and scammers who have only one aim: to do the fastest, cheapest job they can, with no pride and absolutely no care or interest in the final outcome for the customer.
They are just SCUM!

 

[eldaniel]

Sorry to read this...why, oh why do we see such poor workmanship everywhere?
The answer, I feel, is because there are many good people doing good work, electricians, plumbers etc...the kind of people who come on here, give excellent advice and share their wisdom and experience...for every one of those there are 100 cowboys, chancers and scammers who have only one aim: to do the fastest, cheapest job they can, with no pride and absolutely no care or interest in the final outcome for the customer.
They are just SCUM!

Funny enough I have done my utmost to select company carefully. They are MCS and RECC registered, have which trusted traders trademark and good reviews on truspilot. Also they have been around for approx. 5 years. To top it up before signing the contract I have asked them if they will be drilling through the tiles and they have replied that they never drill through the tiles!! I am not naming and shaming them anywhere just yet as there is a very small chance that they do not have a clue what their subcontractors are doing. The amount of stress it has caused me so far is huge and I guess the worse is yet ahead of me in case they won't accept responsibility.

 

[littlespark]

I sense a strongly worded email following an equally strongly worded telephone call to the company in question.
As you say, they may not know how theyre subbies are working, but they need to know quickly.

Yours, unfortunately is the one they need to fix, as soon as possible

 

[eldaniel]

I sense a strongly worded email following an equally strongly worded telephone call to the company in question.
As you say, they may not know how theyre subbies are working, but they need to know quickly.

Yours, unfortunately is the one they need to fix, as soon as possible

Can you give me advice what to include in such email please? Should I just specify what I think is wrong and ask how they are planning to rectify it or should I lay out my expactation and suggest that I expect felt replaced, drilled through and damaged tiles replaced and reinstallation of solars (hooks) in a correct way. I just feel that by laying out expectation precisly I could miss something important out. I would appreciate any advice as never been in a situation before where I had to complain to tradesperson about poor workmanship. Also I think I have to demand reply in writing because if they call me I wont have a proof what was said which I will need if it will advance to court case etc. Am I right? Many thanks for your help so far.

 

[pirate]

I'd get a proper, experienced installer from this forum to do a visit and compile a report. It sounds so poor that I doubt it would take too long on an hourly basis. Money well spent as you would have expert advice and an ally in your struggle, should such ensue.

 

[eldaniel]

I'd get a proper, experienced installer from this forum to do a visit and compile a report. It sounds so poor that I doubt it would take too long on an hourly basis. Money well spent as you would have expert advice and an ally in your struggle, should such ensue.

Not sure how could I judge who is competent or not. Do you think it has to be solar panel installer or could it be building surveyor in general? I get your point and I have to admit I was thinking about going this route but I was planning to do it if it comes to legal battle. However I think there would be lot of benefits of getting this ahead of the game. Could your recommend someone from here in Essex area please? Many thanks for your time once again.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Could your recommend someone from here in Essex area please

bloody chancers i hope you sort it out ,the calls gone out to night the sign will be lite when the sun goes down .

 

[swaRRR]

The best thing when choosing a tradesman is personal recommendation and see if you can get out to view previous work local to you if it's on a roof especially (so you don't need access to go into anyone's house) - if not, try to get pictures and critically assess their work, because review sites aren't worth much these days. Some don't let you leave negative reviews and a lot of reviews are paid for (my previous company paid the workers bonuses for leaving google reviews for their own work!)

Modules are supposed to be supported on the roof and then the tile/slate should be dressed in around it appropriately depending on what sort of install you've got.

Drilling straight through slate means you're going to have leaks, 100%.

 

[eldaniel]

I wrote an email to the company in question outlining the issues. I have started formal complaint procedure and indicated that they may wish to call me but I will still require response in writing. They still called me and explained that they will recitify the issues but when I said that I need explanation in writing exactly what method they will use to install the hooks and how other faults will be recified in detail he was not happy about this. Apparently they are multi-milllion company and do not have time for such level of details! This already does not fill me with confidence. After explaining why getting response in writing is important to me he did say that his secretary will respond to all my questions. We will see if this will be satisfactory. He said hook will be re-installed correctly (whatever that might be). I asked if they definitely will sit on a rafter and no directly on a slate then I got confirmation that this is how it is going to be. Time will tell. Before I sent a complaint I went to the loft again and checked the roof in more detail than before and discovered that one of the hooks it screwed into .... felt (approx. 5 cm) from the beam!!!!
What I did not like too much is the fact that he is not planning to replace the whole felt, but will apply patches to the felt from the inside. I replied that this solution would only be viable if all the slates that have been broked/drilled to will be replaced. On one hand it is positive that they have acknowledged the problem, on the other I get the feeling they will try to repair it at the lowest cost just for whole install to be "barely acceptable". Unless I am just being negative as they have lost my trust completely.
I forgot to discuss with him what is the plan for repairing the rafters. I have attached pictures of the damage they have done. Do you think from point of view of load bearing would this rafter be classed as requiring repair or is just slight damage that wont have any influence on load bearing and whole roof structure please?

Also is it acceptable that they will be sending the same subcontractor to remedy the problem? I do not like this idea.

 

[swaRRR]

I mean the felt is only a backup to the slate but patching up from the inside would do literally nothing in the event of a leak that goes over the existing hole. It will just leak through the hole, on top of the felt patch and then into your house, unless he's going to apply some tar sealant or similar to it.

I'd run a mile.

 

[fourtytwo]

I am only a DIY guy but from the pictures the screws don't look to be long enough or even big enough. The ones I used myself were at least 100mm long by I am guessing at least M6.

 

[swaRRR]

I am only a DIY guy but from the pictures the screws don't look to be long enough or even big enough. The ones I used myself were at least 100mm long by I am guessing at least M6.

That's what we use, M6 x 100's, but don't forget that on some flashing there is a 40 or 50mm void that the screw will have to pass through before hitting the rafters. If they've counter battened too this will make that distance even greater so imo it's not possible to tell the length used from these pictures.

 

[pirate]

Except that those screws are not long enough...

 

[swaRRR]

Except that those screws are not long enough...

If they've missed it's likely there's at least another 10-30mm of play roof-side, seen it loads of times especially on side flashing, looks like they're home but when you go to 'tighten' up the screw there's loads of depth left on them where they've not been done properly.

That said i'd want at least another 30mm in those rafters. Never underestimate the ability of a roofer to miss a rafter. Seems to be a national sport.