starting off advice

[Tidy Max]

Personally from my experience working for a company and working your arse off for a company make no difference, i have put 110% into my job and it goes unrecognised so i decided i should set up and work 110% for myself and reap the benefits.

My job has not lead to progression and has not given me the experience i want to be a domestic electrician. if anything it has hindered my career, at the time it was a means to complete my apprenticeship along with promises of further training and JIB rates. All of which might i add fell through. Although i work to high standard (and safely might i add) i am sure that i don't do things in the quickest way. By setting up on my own in this position my problem will be the amount of labour to charge and the amount of time it takes me to do a job. Both are factors which i have considered alot. But then i look at my current wage and sacrificing the amount i will charge per day/hour to compete with other faster electricians is a hit i am more than willing to take.

I only meant to offer advice as i feel i am in a similar situation to the OP and have been for a couple of years. Maybe sending out another 150 job applications might get him somewhere.

If working your arse off for a company works so well, it makes you wonder why people ever both setting up on their own.

And working your arse off for a company is most certainly NOT the only way you will gain the experience you need, i could be over dramatic and say its the most foolish thing i have ever read but that has already been done once in this thread.

(i rest my handbag)

 

[Tidy Max]

@dorian0505 (sorry i have not got used to quoting yet!)

Most sites subscribe to the considerate/safe contractor scheme, and any site that does subscribe you will need a card to get on. Most cards have the same status on a building site the only difference between cards being if its a skilled profession you need the qualifications to back it up, you could apply for a labourer card or a 'mate' card if they have one and that would be fine.

Its a usefull thing to have, i wish some of my friends had one just for when i needed a lift on site! Good luck!

 

[dorian0505]

Thanks both for the reply - @Max Well i have C&G 2330 Level 2 and 3 along with NVQ 2. Is just a normal 'Labourers' Cscs card acceptable to carry out electrical work on site? or would i need a Ecs card?
I've been ringing and hunting for information for the last few hours and i can't get anywhere! Lol.
Cheers

 

[Tidy Max]

No worries, go to this link, on the left there should be a grading definitions link, click that then find which one you apply to.

Joint Industry Board

To apply for a card the form is the same for all JIB disciplines (I THINK)

The JIB are a nightmare to deal with really, even when you apply it can take weeks to arrive. Theres nothing to worry about with the test though, its very easy. If you have completed your lvl2 + 3 its no different to the health and safety exam you do as part of that course (201/301 i forget, seems like a long time ago lol)

 

[dorian0505]

Cheers mate i'll get looking now!

 

[KFH]

It does worry me when I see people thinking that domestic is an easy way to start and gain experience. Apart from having some idea about the old wiring regs it requires a knowledge of building practices and how a house/flat has been constructed given it may have been built 100 years ago or last week I do worry about what the householder is going to get from people without that knowledge. If you have to knock a hole in a plaster and lath wall can you repair it, or is there an alternative to knocking a hole? Or how will you get a T&G floorboard up without making a mess of it and more importantly get it down again without it squeaking. Unless you are working on new builds the electrics are the easy part of domestic.

I can appreciate your frustration trying to get experience but it is difficult for most trades at the moment and why should a company take you on knowing that once you have the experience you may well set up in competition with them.

Having said that please do not give up, it is difficult for anyone looking for a job at the moment you have to determine how you are going to add value to any company you work for and try selling yourself. There are also implications for companies in having people work for free in terms of insurance and minimum wage.

Good luck.

 

[Tidy Max]

Not only do i appreciate your concern but i also share it KFH but i feel at a complete loss as to what to do! I have worked in alot of different environments although the majority of my work has been in building sites, i am in a position where upon setting up the business i will have people that will sub out to me some of which are domestic sparks who will show me some of the skills that will help. Effectively easing my way in. Your example of t n g floor boards is spot on though and reading the regs daily in conjunction with this website will certainly not teach me practical skills.

Really i should create my own thread and explain my story rather than hijack this gentlemans thread and give the impression i am some vegetable with all the gear and no idea as i am certainly doing myself no favors. Although i must add its beyond frustration, more so when i do the odd foreigner for free and go in after a time served spark and find mistake after mistake and just plain old rough cowboy work. Hearing "well i wont be using him again" is cold comfort to the point of absolute zero!

I appreciate your input KFH and if i start my own thread about my past, present and future plans i hope that you will contribute some advice to as it will be much appreciate. Although i'm somewhat of a virtual recluse and don't like to start threads as people don't usually reply haha (indicating towards stupid threads or pointless questions i suppose).

 

[pjcomp]

One of the reasons for established businesses - whether one-man band or bigger - won't take you on for free is down to safety and insurance. This isn't just the usual 'elf n safety spoiler - if I take on someone under the circumstances you describe I am responsible for their safety, their personal protection equipment, their health on the job (unexpected exposure to asbestos, for instance, falling over something) and just as importantly what they do on the customer's site/premises. And if the HMRC found out, I'd probably have to pay your National Insurance even if you were unpaid. The bureaucracy is a minefield out there and doesn't do anything to encourage giving someone a helping hand.

PJ

 

[RISElectrical]

Personally from my experience working for a company and working your arse off for a company make no difference, i have put 110% into my job and it goes unrecognised so i decided i should set up and work 110% for myself and reap the benefits.

My job has not lead to progression and has not given me the experience i want to be a domestic electrician. if anything it has hindered my career, at the time it was a means to complete my apprenticeship along with promises of further training and JIB rates. All of which might i add fell through. Although i work to high standard (and safely might i add) i am sure that i don't do things in the quickest way. By setting up on my own in this position my problem will be the amount of labour to charge and the amount of time it takes me to do a job. Both are factors which i have considered alot. But then i look at my current wage and sacrificing the amount i will charge per day/hour to compete with other faster electricians is a hit i am more than willing to take.

I only meant to offer advice as i feel i am in a similar situation to the OP and have been for a couple of years. Maybe sending out another 150 job applications might get him somewhere.

If working your arse off for a company works so well, it makes you wonder why people ever both setting up on their own.

And working your arse off for a company is most certainly NOT the only way you will gain the experience you need, i could be over dramatic and say its the most foolish thing i have ever read but that has already been done once in this thread.

(i rest my handbag)

My point was that experience in the OP case is what was missing and I don't believe that the best way to gain experience is to go it alone and learn that way. Experience is best gained working for a company with guidance and opportunity to work alongside people.

Its not like driving where you pass your test and then get better by getting the hours in driving. There is so much that an apprenticeship cant teach you, I think that serving your time then going it alone isnt the best plan. you can put 150% effort in but without experience of working (for somebody else) I think you'll struggle. I could be wrong but it is my opinion and also my opinion that it was foolish to suggest the best option available to someone without any practical experience is to get set up a ltd company and crack on as it were!

"I have very little on site experience" - OP quote to which you said you are in a similar position, so I assume your also newly qualified and lacking experience. You also stated "

For what i lack in experience i make up for in motivation."

Seriously this is 1 of the problems out there. Newly qualified people that don't have the experience to do things thinking that with a practical knowledge gained from college that you are all good to go.

I am all for getting experience but I wouldn't recommend doing it working for yourself and unsupervised. Apprenticeships are 4 years, then there is a reason why the JIB (although they are daft) say 2 years working minimum until approved status... even then you wont know enough I dont think to run a business.

I will jump down off my soap box now!​

 

[Tidy Max]

Fair enough, all very good points. As mention to KFH i should start my own thread rather than make myself look a numpty with badly worded sentances. I'm in a better position than the OP but i have the same problems, is what i should of said. In a way this comes back round to the inadequacies of the governing bodies. I am in a position where i can apply for approved status (i was last time i checked the gradings) yet really i shouldn't be. With the foreigners i've done i could also apply for NICEIC. I could go on for days, and i will start my own thread i think haha.

Back to the OP, good luck in whatever happens, keep applying for jobs, i know a large contractor (commercial not domestic) that are taking on at Christmas i'l PM you some details. Chin up and crack on