This is not a drive by

[Ned Gibbons]

So I'm a tenant, just had the letting agent's electrician perform an eicr.

Would anyone like to guess what the test consisted of?

Quick hint, they arrived at 4pm on a Friday.

 

[DJAndy]

Taking a photo?

 

[Pete999]

So I'm a tenant, just had the letting agent's electrician perform an eicr.

Would anyone like to guess what the test consisted of?

Quick hint, they arrived at 4pm on a Friday.

Introduce himself have a quick look around maybe a cuppa say good by and Foxtrot Oscar POETS DAY P444 off Early Tomorrow is Saturday close enough?

 

[snowhead]

Checking the house / flat number existed and that it was the same place they'd done 5 years ago.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think it was more than that, he plugged in his tester, it went beep, finished his tea than then said goodby.

 

[Ned Gibbons]

Ok, he waved a non contact tester at the consumer unit.

 

[westward10]

Ok, he waved a non contact tester at the consumer unit.

Is this a wind up because that sounds somewhat far fetched.

 

[Pete999]

Ok, he waved a non contact tester at the consumer unit.

Oh the full test procedure then?

 

[Mike Johnson]

It's Friday and gone 1600hrs who cares the week-end beacons, but all the days seem to blend into one now days.

 

[stevethesparks]

Ok, he waved a non contact tester at the consumer unit.

I hope it was a Fluke tester

 

[loz2754]

It's Friday and gone 1600hrs who cares the week-end beacons, but all the days seem to blend into one now days.

The weekend beckons/beacons?
Or a weekend in the Breckon Beacons?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Took a photo of the consumer unit and left...

Seems to be pretty standard these days

 

[DJAndy]

Ok, he waved a non contact tester at the consumer unit.

Is that the actual answer?

 

[i=p/u]

You never do the fluke test, works for someone no doubt and doesn't care , leaving soon for 1 pound extra up the road

 

[littlespark]

I hope you tell your agent AND the landlord that the electrician is taking them all for a ride. Even if he is charging peanuts, he’s not done any work to earn those peanuts.

 

[Ned Gibbons]

Is that the actual answer?

Yes, he also asked if there were any damages sockets or switches. But didn't even take the cover off the board or turn anything off.

 

[pdab09]

So I'm a tenant, just had the letting agent's electrician perform an eicr.

Would anyone like to guess what the test consisted of?

Quick hint, they arrived at 4pm on a Friday.

Turned up, rang the bell and said 'Sign here'.

 

[i=p/u]

Health and safety check up

 

[Ned Gibbons]

I'm still not sure how I'm going to procede with this. But I'd be interested to know how long people would think it would take to do properly.

The house is a 3 bed semi, built in 1999. It's as far as I can tell completely as built. Gas heating, 2 ring finals (kitchen and rest of house), two lighting rings and 3 radials for cooker, tube heater in air cupboard and smoke alarms. No downlights, just a single pendent in each room.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Health and safety check up

Don't you think it's time to take H&S a bit more seriously instead of using it as a cheap shot, especially as its something that saves lives.

 

[i=p/u]

Its widely accepted

 

[Mike Johnson]

I'm still not sure how I'm going to procede with this. But I'd be interested to know how long people would think it would take to do properly.

The house is a 3 bed semi, built in 1999. It's as far as I can tell completely as built. Gas heating, 2 ring finals (kitchen and rest of house), two lighting rings and 3 radials for cooker, tube heater in air cupboard and smoke alarms. No downlights, just a single pendent in each room.

At least one whole day to carry out all the checks and then a few hours to fill out the paperwork.

 

[i=p/u]

If they have maintenance regime in place, this allows them to create there own check sheets, and the jobs you see for testing, some are looking 6 a day..

 

[Mike Johnson]

If they have maintenance regime in place, this allows them to create there own check sheets, and the jobs you see for testing, some are looking 6 a day..

And you need to qualify that as a nonsense and can not be done correctly in that time, unless they are checking at least once a month and ensuring no modifications have taken place.

 

[i=p/u]

Health and safety check I call them.

 

[westward10]

I'm still not sure how I'm going to procede with this. But I'd be interested to know how long people would think it would take to do properly.

The house is a 3 bed semi, built in 1999. It's as far as I can tell completely as built. Gas heating, 2 ring finals (kitchen and rest of house), two lighting rings and 3 radials for cooker, tube heater in air cupboard and smoke alarms. No downlights, just a single pendent in each room.

Four to five hours on site an hour for paperwork.

 

[mattg4321]

I'm still not sure how I'm going to procede with this. But I'd be interested to know how long people would think it would take to do properly.

The house is a 3 bed semi, built in 1999. It's as far as I can tell completely as built. Gas heating, 2 ring finals (kitchen and rest of house), two lighting rings and 3 radials for cooker, tube heater in air cupboard and smoke alarms. No downlights, just a single pendent in each room.

2-3 hours on site minimum to do a reasonable jobs if in good general condition.

Anything under a couple of hours will be very rushed. Anything under an hour is a waste of everyone’s time.

 

[Ned Gibbons]

Ok just had the report back, was expecting C2 because the board is plastic (I know it should be C3).

But nope, nothing listed at all. So apparently my 22 year old installation is fully compliant with the 18th edition.

 

[i=p/u]

That's good.

 

[telectrix]

Ok just had the report back, was expecting C2 because the board is plastic (I know it should be C3).

But nope, nothing listed at all. So apparently my 22 year old installation is fully compliant with the 18th edition.

it does not need to be compliant with 18th. it's tested to current regs. and coded accordingly. e.g. a plastic CU is not to current regs. but as long as it's safe for continued use, then it does not warrant coding as unsatisfactory. might attract a C3( improvement recommended), or a comment.

 

[Micktw68]

I'm still not sure how I'm going to procede with this. But I'd be interested to know how long people would think it would take to do properly.

The house is a 3 bed semi, built in 1999. It's as far as I can tell completely as built. Gas heating, 2 ring finals (kitchen and rest of house), two lighting rings and 3 radials for cooker, tube heater in air cupboard and smoke alarms. No downlights, just a single pendent in each room.

For me thats 4-5 hours of testing and inspecting (I do both).
I’m sure theres lads and lasses on here that are faster .

 

[Des 56]

Look on the bright side,they have supplied you with a piece of paper that really only needs to be issued to the person ordering the work

 

[Dave OCD]

The tenant is also legally entitled to a copy of the EICR , although in this case it might only be of any use if the bog roll runs out.

 

[Dave OCD]

Ned, is the EICR from a firm registered with the NICEIC or Napit ? If so I'd voice my concerns- and put it in writing !

 

[Ned Gibbons]

Ned, is the EICR from a firm registered with the NICEIC or Napit ? If so I'd voice my concerns- and put it in writing !

I haven't checked all the schemes, but they're not NIC EIC. I've found a not very professional Twitter account. I get the feeling it's a one man band property maintenance company who's trying to make a quick buck.

 

[Dartlec]

I haven't checked all the schemes, but they're not NIC EIC. I've found a not very professional Twitter account. I get the feeling it's a one man band property maintenance company who's trying to make a quick buck.

What was on the test results sheet? lots of LIMs, or have they used 'generic 90s install.pdf'? What about Ze? Even the meter changers have a a plug in socket tester that would have verified polarity!

In my experience, supplementary bonding wasn't bothered much with during those periods, so likely to be at least a C2 with bathroom lighting (unless Class 2 fitting and plastic pipes maybe - but a picture of the consumer unit wouldn't tell anyone that).

What you have is the equivalent of the old dodgy MOT certificate. Ticks a box and everyone hopes that nothing happens. Landlord should be aware that's the risk he's taking though.

As usual those of us that do it properly and want to prove a safe installation will end up either being undercut or will only see the properties that are well maintained anyway - and the whole exercise will leave the worst houses no more safe than they were when the legislation came in....

 

[Dartlec]

I'm still not sure how I'm going to procede with this. But I'd be interested to know how long people would think it would take to do properly.

The house is a 3 bed semi, built in 1999. It's as far as I can tell completely as built. Gas heating, 2 ring finals (kitchen and rest of house), two lighting rings and 3 radials for cooker, tube heater in air cupboard and smoke alarms. No downlights, just a single pendent in each room.

A lot depends on access and number of circuits - but I honestly don't see how it's possible to do a useful report in less than 2-3 hours on site (less if there are multiple people perhaps).

The first hour is often taken up working out what the circuit that is labelled 'unknown' does, discovering that downstairs and upstairs lighting are reversed, that the one socket in Timmy's room is actually on the kitchen ring, and trying to find the mains water stopcock (seriously, why do so many tenants NOT know where this is?)

Maybe it will be better the next time round when there is a previous document - who am I kidding - no-one will be able to find it by then or it will be quickly obvious that it was a drive by and less than useless as a starting point!

 

[Soi disant]

it does not need to be compliant with 18th.

The law says it does.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The law says it does.

That would mean the regulations are retrospective which they are not.

 

[radiohead]

The law says it does.

The EICR is required to be carried out to to requirements of the 18th, that does not mean the installation is required by law to be compliant with the 18th.

 

[telectrix]

The law says it does.

what law???

 

[pc1966]

seriously, why do so many tenants NOT know where this is?

Well for my flat:

• Nobody told me when I moved it
• Years later found one stopcock under the shelf in the wardrobe, only visible because I was down at foot level looking in for some reason. Found it shut off cold water to bathroom but not kitchen, WTF?
• Years after that gas board changed me meter and supply pipe as no longer allowed a riser within the block of flats. Had to cut back board under the kitchen sink and LO! Another stopcock permanently boarded up!
• Also found what should have been the main water pipe bond behind the kitchen sink's backboard, a length of 6mm from CU that was ready to go, but obviously the fitters had boarded up before the sparky got back so never done.

So in my case the main water pipe (ancient lead thing, flats date from 1910 or similar) was split somewhere in wall/floor before the two hidden stopcocks for the flat.

 

[DPG]

The law says it does.

If this was the case then every house would need to have every inch of its wiring ripped out and replaced with the new colours.

As above, the regs are NOT retrospective.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Oh just think how much work would be available if any new regs where retrospective. ?

 

[Soi disant]

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020

Interpretation

2. In these Regulations—

.
.
“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018
.
.
Duties of private landlords in relation to electrical installations

3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—

(a) ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;

 

[DPG]

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020

Interpretation

2. In these Regulations—

.
.
“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018
.
.
Duties of private landlords in relation to electrical installations

3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—

(a) ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;

Read the introduction section on page 4 of the current regs please.

The regs can not possibly be retrospective. Imagine the cost and upheaval every time a new revision or amendment came out!

 

[Soi disant]

Yes, indeed. A set of non-statutory technical regulations says that electrical installations which do not comply do not necessarily have to be upgraded.

And an actual law says that they do have to comply.

It is open to any landlord to pay lawyers squillions of pounds a day to dance on the head of that particular pin.

But meanwhile, in the real world, there is no denying that (with the definition expanded) what the law says in black and white is:

A private landlord who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must ensure that the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018 are met during any period when the residential premises are occupied under a specified tenancy.

?

 

[DPG]

Yes, indeed. A set of non-statutory technical regulations says that electrical installations which do not comply do not necessarily have to be upgraded.

And an actual law says that they do have to comply.

It is open to any landlord to pay lawyers squillions of pounds a day to dance on the head of that particular pin.

But meanwhile, in the real world, there is no denying that (with the definition expanded) what the law says in black and white is:

A private landlord who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must ensure that the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018 are met during any period when the residential premises are occupied under a specified tenancy.

?

Yes, the regs must be complied with. And a fundamental feature of the regs is covered in the introduction on page 4 that I referred to, which states that existing installations may not meet the latest regs, but may be safe. I'm not sure why you are trying to prove that every property must comply with every single reg in the 18th edition.

 

[Soi disant]

First, the law doesn't apply to "every property", only privately rented accommodation.

Secondly, I'm not trying to "prove" anything - I'm just showing that the law quite clearly says that such accommodation must meet the standards of the 18th.

You have a number of options concerning that.

You can deny that it says it.
You can say it doesn't mean what it says.
You can go and complain about it to the people who wrote it.

But one option I don't think you have is to get argumentative with me when I say that the law requires something which it quite clearly does, and will continue to say until someone pays the lawyers for a pinhead dance and a court rules on how it is to be interpreted. None of us here have any standing to rule on what the intent of Parliament really was, and no matter how many and how often people say "yeah but the regs say...", the law will continue to say what it does.

 

[DPG]

First, the law doesn't apply to "every property", only privately rented accommodation.

Secondly, I'm not trying to "prove" anything - I'm just showing that the law quite clearly says that such accommodation must meet the standards of the 18th.

You have a number of options concerning that.

You can deny that it says it.
You can say it doesn't mean what it says.
You can go and complain about it to the people who wrote it.

But one option I don't think you have is to get argumentative with me when I say that the law requires something which it quite clearly does, and will continue to say until someone pays the lawyers for a pinhead dance and a court rules on how it is to be interpreted. None of us here have any standing to rule on what the intent of Parliament really was, and no matter how many and how often people say "yeah but the regs say...", the law will continue to say what it does.

OK then, I accept your argument that every single rented property in the country needs all its wiring replacing and a new consumer unit fitting.