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Discuss Warm flow oil boiler in the Central Heating Systems area at ElectriciansForums.net

Craig2022

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Trainee Electrician
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Hello, so this is to anyone that is great with heating systems.

It’s always been a weak point for myself.

I am currently doing a heating system at a home which has a warm flow oil boiler.

I’ve been told it has 4 zone valves

1-UFH
2-Upstairs radiators
3-Towel radiators
4-Hot water

It will have a 2 channel programmer (Honeywell) doing the upstairs rads + towel rads

Another 2 channel prog doing the hot water and hot water circulation

Lastly a single channel doing the UFH

Can anyone hit me up with a working wiring diagram which can help get this all working

Thank you
 

Paignton pete

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Arms Access
Not sure there is one as such.

It takes a bit of s plan schematics and a bit of your own design based on your knowledge of how heating systems and there components work.

I normally don’t work to a schematic as I was very luck to work for a heating company for a couple of years when I first qualified so learnt loads.

Hopefully I am wrong about there being a schematic and someone will point one out to you.

I’ve always felt that there was a need to incorporate heating systems into basic electrical training or a separate course.
 
Hi Craig
What you require is S Plan plus.

Try googling that or "s plan +"

There are loads of examples out there.

Basically it's a standard S Plan with as many additional zones as you require. The schematics will make more sense than made trying to describe it.
 

Craig2022

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Trainee Electrician
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Thanks for the reply, I’m not going back to the job for a couple of weeks now.

So I’ll have a look at S plan + tonight and maybe try draw out my own diagram from it and have you guys tel me what you think.

I’ve never had the opportunity to really work with heating systems apart from a standard combi boiler with 1 stat. Hence the novice outlook towards it.
 

Craig2022

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Trainee Electrician
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Please have a look at this and tell me what you think, I ain't 100% on the underfloor heating valve as that will be connecting into a manifold so maybe needs tweaked.

heating.png
 

davesparks

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Arms Access
Please have a look at this and tell me what you think, I ain't 100% on the underfloor heating valve as that will be connecting into a manifold so maybe needs tweaked.

View attachment 52151
Well that won't work,and it's not very easy to understand.

Draw a circuit diagram and it should become a bit easier to get right.
You need to start with understanding what each component is and how it works electrically, and then understand how to achieve the control functions you require.

Just matching up colours and numbers won't get you anywhere.
 

anthonybragg

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Arms Access
You need to start with understanding what each component is and how it works electrically, and then understand how to achieve the control functions you require.

Just matching up colours and numbers won't get you anywhere.
This is true Dave as if there is a fault or problem you can diagnose it.
Post automatically merged:

How is the UFH being controlled most cases there are programmable room stats in each room of the UFH going back to a UFH controller which has a volt free relay to turn on the boiler. The stats can also be either mains or E.L.V. 3-core and earth or cat5 respectively check what is being provided by the plumber.
 
Last edited:

davesparks

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Arms Access
Please have a look at this and tell me what you think, I ain't 100% on the underfloor heating valve as that will be connecting into a manifold so maybe needs tweaked.

View attachment 52151
Draw the circuit rather than pictures with colours and numbers that don't show what is happening electrically. If it's easier break it down in to the simplest level of what is actually happening.
The motorised valves behave electrically the same as a simple relay and everything else is either switches or a load.
To start with ignore the additional lives and neutrals required for various electronics, just focus on the actual control circuits.

So the programmer is just a switch, thermostats are again a switch and valves are relays.
Pumps, the boiler etc are just loads (you could even represent these as lamps if you wish)
Take one channel at a time and work out which switches need to operate which load and in what combination.

So for the central heating you would have a permanent live to the first switch (programmer) the output from this switch feeds the second switch (thermostat) this then operates a relay (valve)
The relay output is connected to permanent live so that it switches on a load (boiler) when energised.

The hot water is the same.

The towel rails don't have a thermostat so the programmer operates the really directly.

The hot water circulating pump will be switched directly by the programmer so it is just one switch directly operating that load.

The underfloor heating we don't know for certain yet without details so assume for the moment it is the same as the central heating.

Now you should have a circuit for the actual controls, you can add the other bits like permanent live to the boiler, neutral to the room stat and programmer.

Hopefully this quick sketch will help illustrate what I mean. 15684816432741151192379949692794.jpg
 

Paignton pete

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Arms Access
Hi Craig 2022,
I like Davesparks idea of just concentrating on the relay switches and controls and forgetting about the permanent lives to get a feel for the actual operational way it runs.

But I have to admit I prefer the simpler way you have drawn it.

Courses for horses, each to there own.
 

davesparks

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Arms Access
Hi Craig 2022,
I like Davesparks idea of just concentrating on the relay switches and controls and forgetting about the permanent lives to get a feel for the actual operational way it runs.

But I have to admit I prefer the simpler way you have drawn it.

Courses for horses, each to there own.
How on earth would you learn how the circuit works, install or fault find from the pictures and numbers approach?
I appreciate my sketch is not the clearest, but it still makes more electrical sense
 

Paignton pete

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Arms Access
How on earth would you learn how the circuit works, install or fault find from the pictures and numbers approach?
I appreciate my sketch is not the clearest, but it still makes more electrical sense
Sorry if your upset by this.

It wasnt meant to be a criticism.

I think your approach is brilliant, I said as much in my reply.

I just prefer it the other way.

As i said each to there own.
 

Craig2022

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Trainee Electrician
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Thank you all for the feedback.

The way I chose to go about the diagram was in a simple form which I understood. Drawing it out would probably of been worse as I don’t know all the symbols.

Where did I go wrong with my diagram?

The ufh have a stat for every zone which have 3c back to manifold area.

I’m taking everything you guys say in, as heating is something I would like to turn from being a weakness to a strong point of mine.
 
As far as I am aware, oil boilers don't modulate, so it is a simply on/off control. Basic idea is thermostat opens a motorised valve then all motorised valves have a micro switch in parallel to power boiler, so any motorised valve opening will fire boiler.

This is the whole idea of the S plan.

Not sure why you need a programmer other than maybe for DHW, I personally would use programmable thermostats, that way no need for a frost stat.

Towel rail and DHW normally combined together that way the return water is cooler so boiler does not cycle as much, and a thermostat on the tank will normally run enough times in the day to dry towels, it may not heat the bathroom enough but that's not what a towel rail is for.
 

Paignton pete

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Arms Access
Thank you all for the feedback.

The way I chose to go about the diagram was in a simple form which I understood. Drawing it out would probably of been worse as I don’t know all the symbols.

Where did I go wrong with my diagram?

The ufh have a stat for every zone which have 3c back to manifold area.

I’m taking everything you guys say in, as heating is something I would like to turn from being a weakness to a strong point of mine.
Can you answer my question in post 6.

Also post 9- you need all the info of the plumber before you can finish the schematics.

From your diagram I think you’ve grasped the basics, but above information is needed.
 

Craig2022

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Trainee Electrician
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Thank you both for the replies


Can you answer my question in post 6.

Also post 9- you need all the info of the plumber before you can finish the schematics.

From your diagram I think you’ve grasped the basics, but above information is needed.
Your correct, that should of been connected to 6. Rather than 7.

In regards for the UFH it has programmable stats to each zone. I didn’t get much of a look at the kit, but it comes with a controlled wiring centre.
 

Paignton pete

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Arms Access
As far as I’m concerned as long as the plumber has okayed everything on his side and that is all the equipment in use you’ve about got it.

But I think there should be a few more thermostats, whether room cylinder or safety included in this schematic.

before I do any heating system I confirm with the plumber that all the port valves, thermostats, pumps, etc are piped up correctly and what each piece of equipment is designed to accomplish.

Even though I know it already I like to know he knows, and designs and technology change all the time. I do this with plumbers I work with all the time and we get things done efficiently and correctly first time.

I have wired one heating system once on the back of a plumber saying his bit was done it’s up to you. The system didn’t work because it had been piped up wrong.

Go through the check list before you start.
 

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