Was RCD protection required for cables <50mm in 2007?

[Teddy Lop]

code appropriately to todays regs, C3 for cables <50mm in wall with no RCD, imo potentially a C2 for those bathroom bits depending which zone they fall in if any.

I'm just thumbing through a copy of "EICR codebreakers", hopefully to see that my old brains understanding is mostly in accord. All was going well until page 38, 5.12.3, I had a jolt:

"No RCD protection PVC/PVC cables in walls : C2"

Also page 37 522.6.202-204 - less than 50mm, no RCD, : C2

This goes completely against my understanding that the regs and reporting are not retro-active (aside from a few specific areas such as RCD protection for bathrooms/exterior accessible sockets,) that older installations not meeting current spec is always C3? The only time you'd C2 it would be if the work were recent enough for it to be a requirement?

 

[radiohead]

I'm just thumbing through a copy of "EICR codebreakers", hopefully to see that my old brains understanding is mostly in accord. All was going well until page 38, 5.12.3, I had a jolt:

"No RCD protection PVC/PVC cables in walls : C2"

Also page 37 522.6.202-204 - less than 50mm, no RCD, : C2

This goes completely against my understanding that the regs and reporting are not retro-active (aside from a few specific areas such as RCD protection for bathrooms/exterior accessible sockets,) that older installations not meeting current spec is always C3? The only time you'd C2 it would be if the work were recent enough for it to be a requirement?

Codebreakers is rubbish, ignore it.
You as the inspector need to judge the potential danger. A switch drop directly above a point hardly warrents a code 2, but I would consider 25mm tails buried, unprotected and unexpected to be potentially dangerous and may apply a code 2. In nearly all cases lack of RCD protection to a buried cable installed in a safe zone is only going to get a code 3. Always bear in mind when coding that it is very hard to justify to a client that their installation freshly wired and compliant just a few years ago is now potentially dangerous.
Whether the work is recent has no bearing on the safety and code applied.

 

[Teddy Lop]

Codebreakers is rubbish, ignore it.
You as the inspector need to judge the potential danger. A switch drop directly above a point hardly warrents a code 2, but I would consider 25mm tails buried, unprotected and unexpected to be potentially dangerous and may apply a code 2. In nearly all cases lack of RCD protection to a buried cable installed in a safe zone is only going to get a code 3. Always bear in mind when coding that it is very hard to justify to a client that their installation freshly wired and compliant just a few years ago is now potentially dangerous.
Whether the work is recent has no bearing on the safety and code applied.

yes, you are correct, thinking about it I'd never C2 it unless out of zone, although on a newer install that requires it theres more scope at least.

TBF theres a few things I take umbridge with in the codebreakers - no downlight fire hood C2? exposed insulation at downlight connectors C2? maybe I'll chuck it back at the wholesalers! Thought I was doing the right thing as I've had a right somewhat of an nic inspector the last few years who seems to go out of his way to snag my certs.

 

[radiohead]

yes, you are correct, thinking about it I'd never C2 it unless out of zone, although on a newer install that requires it theres more scope at least.

TBF theres a few things I take umbridge with in the codebreakers - no downlight fire hood C2? exposed insulation at downlight connectors C2? maybe I'll chuck it back at the wholesalers! Thought I was doing the right thing as I've had a right somewhat of an nic inspector the last few years who seems to go out of his way to snag my certs.

I think your NICEIC guy may just want to discuss your coding in order to make sure you can reasonably justify whatever the code is with technical reasoning.

 

[Risteard]

exposed insulation at downlight connectors C2?

What issue do you have with this? The sheath is there to provide mechanical protection to the cable, and therefore to protect the insulation against mechanical insult. If the sheath has been removed at that point outside of an enclosure then essentially there is no mechanical protection at that point. To me that would justify a C2 observation.

 

[davesparks]

This goes completely against my understanding that the regs and reporting are not retro-active (aside from a few specific areas such as RCD protection for bathrooms/exterior accessible sockets,) that older installations not meeting current spec is always C3? The only time you'd C2 it would be if the work were recent enough for it to be a requirement?

As I said earlier in this thread you carry out an EICR acvo4idng to the current regulations, you do not make exceptions based on the date of installation or the regulations in effect at the time of installation.

You cannot just give a C3 to anything that complied at the time of installation, you'd be giving fused neutrals and green coloured live conductors a C3 if that was the case!

The regulations state that compliance with a previous version of the regulations does not necessarily mean something is unsafe.
The key point is that it says 'not necessarily', this means that it may be unsafe Or it may not be unsafe, further consideration is required to reach a decision.

 

[Risteard]

I think the bathroom lights should have been rcd protected under 16th edition

No requirement under the 16th Edition. Just socket-outlets which might reasonably be used to supply portable equipment outdoors, although many did it for all socket-outlets and electric showers too. (Likely to have stipulated RCD protection in the electric shower manufacturer's instructions.)

Typically a split load DB was used with non-RCD protected ways and RCD protected ways. RCBOs certainly weren't really a thing (and were hugely expensive).

EDIT: That's embarassing - I see I already answered this post a number of years ago!

 

[Pretty Mouth]

What issue do you have with this? The sheath is there to provide mechanical protection to the cable, and therefore to protect the insulation against mechanical insult. If the sheath has been removed at that point outside of an enclosure then essentially there is no mechanical protection at that point. To me that would justify a C2 observation.

Best practice guide 4 suggests a C3 for this, assuming the unsheathed cores are not accessible to touch, or likely to come into contact wit metalwork

 

[radiohead]

Best practice guide 4 suggests a C3 for this, assuming the unsheathed cores are not accessible to touch, or likely to come into contact wit metalwork

Agreed, a typical downlight will have connections not exposed to touch. C3.
Many GU10 downlights have basic insulation only on the lampholder wires, exposed to touch when changing the lamp

 

[Andy78]

Agreed, a typical downlight will have connections not exposed to touch. C3.
Many GU10 downlights have basic insulation only on the lampholder wires, exposed to touch when changing the lamp

That's usually reinforced insulation as far as I know.