wholesalers ripping us off

[dragonspark]

hello fellow sparks
i was hoping there would be a fellow tradesman that could point me in the right direction.
having been a self employed electrician since 1991 i am aware that some wholesalers have some tricks up their sleeve in order to boost their salesfigures at the cost of us self employed electricians and companies, however over the last two years especially i have noticed that instances of these tactics have increased.
Due to this i am sure we all have to scrutinise our wholesaler invoices, if we find we have a query on an invoice, we complain and get a credit note,
personnaly i have noticed a huge increase in these instances, i know we should get prices first however when you run a business that relies on machinery breakdowns and we are back and to, to the supplier many times a day, getting prices is very time consuming and very difficult in a breakdown instance.
Wholesalers take advantage of this and will add money here and there and in many cases will try it on and add silly ammounts to your invoice hoping that you do not notice.
About six months ago i made a request about certain items to be given consideration, and again with no result, having very fortunately a great influx of work, i have to admit my concentration was diverted and the charges from this supplier increased.
I began purchasing items from RS Components as even they were cheaper, i began to purchase from Denmans and found their charges to be 50% cheaper, i opened accounts with two further suppliers all with the same result, the majority of items purchased are 50% cheaper, in the remaining 25% of items they are 60%,70% and even 90% cheaper.
The supplier in question has been informed of my concerns, as i have asked for items i feel have excessive charges upon them to be given consideration, i asked twice for this, also items we have returned we have not been given credit notes for and items that they delivered too late
was forced to purchase elsewhere therefore did no longer require , we also have not recieved credit notes for, they have been advised of all this and that we have one client delaying payment as items we ordered took weeks to arrive and therefore we completed job late.
As earlier requests have recieved no action, i have deferred payment, i have informed the supplier of why i am deferring payment and their response is to issue demands through their solicitor.
I was under the impression that wholesalers could only charge a certain percentage to their trade customers, i thought there were guidelines they had to work within, is there anyone out there could advise me if there are guidelines that wholesalers work to and what those guidelines are, or can a wholesaler just simply charge what they feel like, we have purchased from other suppliers over £4000.00 in each of the last two months, needless to say the supplier in question has lost that business however with their current charging regime their charges would have been more like £5500 per month or more im sure if they were allowed to get away with it.
any advice anybody please

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Sounds like CEF to me.

Unfortunately, they can charge what they like so I do often enquire the price before buying. I have only had one slip up from Edmunson's and that was a mistake on an RCBO and had it credited with no problem.

 

[alli]

You do need to keep at the wholesalers about their prices. I picked up 2 lengths of mini trunking, and when the invoice came in, it was for £26. I fired into them saying even B&Q sell it for £2.60 a length and where did they get there prices from. To be fair they quickly sorted it out.

I now keep a sharp eye on their prices and point out to them when I can get it chaper else where. So far they are happy to match the majority of the prices and I am finding I am getting better discounts on the other stuff as well.

 

[dingledong]

the wholesaler can charge what it likes , but if you buy it its a different matter the best thing to do is get friendly with one lad there and just use him if he's not there ,if you can wait till he is
i have 2 wholesalers in different areas and it is a bit swings and roundabouts but with one of them i can discuss what i'm looking for and one lad will hunt it down or if its urgent then he will try his hardest to get it for me . so if ocassionally i'ts a bit expensive then i cant complain can i . also the tea comes in handy.
i cant stand or use a wholesaler who says we dont keep that or is unhelpfull maybe thats why i'm down to just 2 shops now

 

[supasparxs]

Hi Guys,
Like most of you I keep an eye on the cost of material;s and shop around.
If I have a larger project I write a spreadsheet itemising everything I can think of and email it out to the wholesalers.

I did this back in July for a project I had in East London.

The most expensive was my local wholesaler in Lancashire, the cheapest was one I had used before near Chelmsford.

I did have a chat with one of the directors of my local wholesaler and for the next large project he will be costing the materials. he said the guy who quoted it didn't take into account for the big picture and the margin that they would take on a £10,000 material list would be far less on a £100 order.

BTW with the company near Chelmsford, I have a company credit-card with a £6k credit limit which clears down each month, so I know I was only charged for what I wanted.


btw,
if you use screwfix, registrar for electrofix and you can get better prices, also if you are an electrofix customer you can access the plumbfix prices
also Toolstation tend to sell similar items to screwfix, but tend to be a bit cheaper

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

CEF billed me £30.00 for a Bacho hacksaw last week, i wen nuts when i saw the bill especially as i saw an IRWIN for 4.99 in the shop,

 

[supasparxs]

Years ago I was subbing for a company.
The boss and I went into a branch of WF. They asked him his company name and pit it on account.
As it turns out he didn't have a WF account........

 

[dingledong]

i went into screwfix the other day but for some reason i just dont like them. well after i would say an arguement about becomoing a member ( i was in a wild rush) which took 15 minutes went into the other side and they didn't have what i wanted . . .never again

 

[egginyourface]

This isn't a plug but wholesaler i use are in Welham Green, Welham Electrical Wholesalers near potters bar. Its run by 2 partners. Top guys in there.

I prefer the smaller wholesalers, more reliable.

 

[Deleted member 19807]

sounds like wilts to me, I have to check every line on every invoice.

 

[Rockingit]

I have accounts with all the usual national suspects for 'get out of jail' purposes when out and about, but try very hard to keep the bulk of my materials purchasing to just one - that way you get the benefit of a great relationship with the guys in your local branch, advice and tea when needed, better discounts because of a higher level of average purchasing and the ability to negotiate on the odd occasion you get shafted by a non payer.

Yes, the sheds sometimes beat them on price a little bit, but the wholesalers deliver for free, and you try and see what happens when you ring your local Orange Shed 2 mins before they shut on a Friday night saying "I'm on my way, about 5 mins....."

 

[Marvo]

Sounds like it's different for you guys. Our suppliers have a 'list price' price list for all items they sell. We have a discount structure negotiated with them that's relative to the list price. Example, we get 55% discount (list less 55%) on motors because we purchase good quantities but we only get 30% discount on switches and sockets because our volumes on those are very low. Obviously if the list price goes up with inflation then our price also goes up but our discount is still relative to the price an end-user or one of our customers would get quoted.

 

[La Poste]

sounds like wilts to me, I have to check every line on every invoice.

Is there some problem with Wilts at the moment?

Whenever I go in there the place looks more and more run down.

 

[Rockingit]

Is there some problem with Wilts at the moment?

Whenever I go in there the place looks more and more run down.

Yes, I think there is! I know that recently they lost membership of the buyers cartel (whatever it's called) as they couldn't stump up the cash, and the bank has had a manager resident at their head office for months.

But they also spent a fortune on some stupid IT system that's never worked properly and prices everything according to the quantity sold right across the nation - I've bought 2 x identical rcbo's from them one time, in one transaction, and the invoice had a price for one of them, and a different price for the other!!

I try very hard to avoid them.

 

[baldelectrician]

I use several wholesalers, but I find the small independent makes all the difference and tries harder

 

[supasparxs]

This isn't a plug but wholesaler i use are in Welham Green, Welham Electrical Wholesalers near potters bar. Its run by 2 partners. Top guys in there.

I prefer the smaller wholesalers, more reliable.

On the whole I agree with you

 

[dragonspark]

many thanks for your replies
as noted above, i know we should all take very close scrutiny of our wholesaler invoices, the ideal is to get written prices for everything however as a small firm just myself and my two sons, this is very time consuming and in periods of pressure, as when a few clients all require jobs completing quickly, time really is of a premium.
i have been using other suppliers for the last couple of months and have found an average of a 50% saving, yes 50%
which is why i asked if wholesalers have guidelines they have to work within.
the supplier i have a dispute with, have not given credit notes for items returned, yes they have been asked, items ordered that took so long to come that we went elsewhere, therefore no longer required have still been charged to our account, i have asked for credit notes.
months ago i enquired how much double sockets are , to be told £1.50 so i then asked why we were being charged £3.70 and £7.00 even £13.00, nothing was done about it, i asked the same question to another employee with still nothing, almost everything bought from this particular wholesaler is 50% more expensive than the suppliers now being used, just one example for you they charged £168.00 for 25 x 6ft tubes, Denmans quoted £114,00, also a week after charging me £168.00 for 25 tubes i was sent another invoice for £130.00 for 6 x 6ft tubes.
as i have had no action at all from any of my previous requests and progressive silly invoices i have refused to pay them, now at least they are taking notice suprise suprise, they asked which invoices i have queries upon and i have replied the majority, after which i have recieved a solicitors letter accusing myself of employing delaying tactics and threatening court action, i have replied direct to the solicitor and the supplier stating that it is the majority of invoices i have a problem with.
If wholesalers can charge what they like then i suppose i am knackered and will have to fork out, i just thought there may be guidelines for suppliers to work to in supplyying trade customers
many thanks

 

[Marvo]

.... they asked which invoices i have queries upon and i have replied the majority, after which i have recieved a solicitors letter accusing myself of employing delaying tactics and threatening court action, i have replied direct to the solicitor and the supplier stating that it is the majority of invoices i have a problem with.

There's a big difference between not paying at all and withholding an amount that's under dispute. I would pay up to date all amounts that are due and are not being disputed. Them you'll need to give a full written report stating the prices you were quoted, when and by whom along with a list of every invoice numbers and items you were overcharged and stating by how much. If they're dragging their feet giving refunds for returned goods send them another list of refunds you're waiting for and add monthly interest at the maximum rate allowable under your local laws.

 

[baldelectrician]

many thanks for your replies
as noted above, i know we should all take very close scrutiny of our wholesaler invoices, the ideal is to get written prices for everything however as a small firm just myself and my two sons, this is very time consuming and in periods of pressure, as when a few clients all require jobs completing quickly, time really is of a premium.
i have been using other suppliers for the last couple of months and have found an average of a 50% saving, yes 50%
which is why i asked if wholesalers have guidelines they have to work within.
the supplier i have a dispute with, have not given credit notes for items returned, yes they have been asked, items ordered that took so long to come that we went elsewhere, therefore no longer required have still been charged to our account, i have asked for credit notes.
months ago i enquired how much double sockets are , to be told £1.50 so i then asked why we were being charged £3.70 and £7.00 even £13.00, nothing was done about it, i asked the same question to another employee with still nothing, almost everything bought from this particular wholesaler is 50% more expensive than the suppliers now being used, just one example for you they charged £168.00 for 25 x 6ft tubes, Denmans quoted £114,00, also a week after charging me £168.00 for 25 tubes i was sent another invoice for £130.00 for 6 x 6ft tubes.
as i have had no action at all from any of my previous requests and progressive silly invoices i have refused to pay them, now at least they are taking notice suprise suprise, they asked which invoices i have queries upon and i have replied the majority, after which i have recieved a solicitors letter accusing myself of employing delaying tactics and threatening court action, i have replied direct to the solicitor and the supplier stating that it is the majority of invoices i have a problem with.
If wholesalers can charge what they like then i suppose i am knackered and will have to fork out, i just thought there may be guidelines for suppliers to work to in supplyying trade customers
many thanks

They don't really have a leg to stand on

I would, however detail every invoice you have with them and then go through them all
Put, also in writing the ones you have a problem with and state what price you will be paying for each item

Did you cancel the order for the items that took ages? If you did you should expect a restocking charge - I would offer 15% to them as a restocking charge for these items

You need to make sure all the problems detailed are in writing and it looks as if you are being fair.
Pay all the items due (use BACS to make sure you can prove you have paid), and request them to either write the remainder off or justify the extra costs

 

[telectrix]

i wouldn't offer them any restocking charge as they failed to deliver goods as promised.